1 00:00:14,570 --> 00:00:35,650 [Music] 2 00:00:41,329 --> 00:00:38,990 hello and welcome to the show I'm Martin 3 00:00:43,910 --> 00:00:41,339 Willis your host and we have a great 4 00:00:47,420 --> 00:00:43,920 show for you this evening we have Paul 5 00:00:50,270 --> 00:00:47,430 Carr as a guest he is involved in the 6 00:00:54,799 --> 00:00:50,280 space field he's a healthy skeptic and 7 00:00:58,340 --> 00:00:54,809 he's also he's involved in the aerial 8 00:01:00,619 --> 00:00:58,350 phenomenon investigations team API we're 9 00:01:02,750 --> 00:01:00,629 going to be talking all about that later 10 00:01:05,870 --> 00:01:02,760 Alejandro Rojas is coming up in just a 11 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:05,880 minute with UFO updates just a couple of 12 00:01:08,900 --> 00:01:06,930 things I want to thank everyone that 13 00:01:10,279 --> 00:01:08,910 supports the show without your support 14 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:10,289 we could not do it I really do 15 00:01:16,130 --> 00:01:13,170 appreciate that every week we have a new 16 00:01:18,669 --> 00:01:16,140 blog by charles lear who blogs for us 17 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:18,679 and this week the blog is titled 18 00:01:23,359 --> 00:01:21,570 sympathy for the airforce regarding UFOs 19 00:01:25,999 --> 00:01:23,369 maybe a lot of people don't have 20 00:01:28,130 --> 00:01:26,009 sympathy for the Air Force because we 21 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:28,140 know they've actually have not always 22 00:01:33,230 --> 00:01:30,930 been truthful but in this blog Charles 23 00:01:35,510 --> 00:01:33,240 covers the Air Force's means of 24 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:35,520 deflecting the press and the citizenry 25 00:01:42,679 --> 00:01:39,450 who hounded them for information right 26 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:42,689 in the midst of the 1950's UFO mania Oh 27 00:01:49,249 --> 00:01:46,290 flap whatever that was happening I would 28 00:01:51,319 --> 00:01:49,259 say mania is more to it all so I just 29 00:01:55,130 --> 00:01:51,329 wanted to let people know that we do 30 00:01:57,859 --> 00:01:55,140 have a UFO sightings posting page anyone 31 00:02:00,740 --> 00:01:57,869 can post there anonymously recently the 32 00:02:05,959 --> 00:02:00,750 last posting the gentleman decided not 33 00:02:09,830 --> 00:02:05,969 to remain anonymous and he is a a pilot 34 00:02:12,380 --> 00:02:09,840 his name is Mark Muscat and he's a 35 00:02:15,830 --> 00:02:12,390 commercial pilot with over 5,000 hours 36 00:02:18,500 --> 00:02:15,840 and he writes about his encounter while 37 00:02:21,140 --> 00:02:18,510 night flying back in 1998 with a 38 00:02:23,210 --> 00:02:21,150 formation of lights six very unusual 39 00:02:26,330 --> 00:02:23,220 lights so check that out that's over at 40 00:02:29,479 --> 00:02:26,340 podcast UFO calm under UFO sightings and 41 00:02:31,009 --> 00:02:29,489 that's it for me for right now we're 42 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:31,019 gonna bring on the one and only 43 00:02:36,589 --> 00:02:33,810 Alejandro Rojas how are you Alejandro 44 00:02:37,220 --> 00:02:36,599 hello hello I am doing well thank you 45 00:02:38,339 --> 00:02:37,230 good 46 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:38,349 welcome to the 47 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:42,010 and you you were gonna have a loo 48 00:02:47,580 --> 00:02:44,530 Elizondo on this week he's is he coming 49 00:02:49,229 --> 00:02:47,590 up yeah well this will be the update so 50 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:49,239 I didn't have him this week which was 51 00:02:54,119 --> 00:02:51,610 kind of cool in a way because I thought 52 00:02:55,500 --> 00:02:54,129 I really want to catch my audience up I 53 00:02:58,680 --> 00:02:55,510 mean I've been doing a lot of research 54 00:03:00,630 --> 00:02:58,690 in the background over the background of 55 00:03:02,610 --> 00:03:00,640 a tip and how it got together who are 56 00:03:05,399 --> 00:03:02,620 all these major players and it can be 57 00:03:06,660 --> 00:03:05,409 really confusing and so I decided it 58 00:03:09,750 --> 00:03:06,670 would be good to have a show where I 59 00:03:11,460 --> 00:03:09,760 just cover that and so that's what I did 60 00:03:15,059 --> 00:03:11,470 that way people because people were 61 00:03:17,220 --> 00:03:15,069 asking a lot of questions for Lou that 62 00:03:19,259 --> 00:03:17,230 obviously they they didn't understand a 63 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:19,269 lot of that background so I did that 64 00:03:23,069 --> 00:03:21,250 because he had to push again and 65 00:03:24,660 --> 00:03:23,079 essentially what happened was he made 66 00:03:28,349 --> 00:03:24,670 the commitment that he would do an 67 00:03:30,270 --> 00:03:28,359 interview with me before he kind of knew 68 00:03:32,129 --> 00:03:30,280 what the schedule was for the History 69 00:03:34,140 --> 00:03:32,139 Channel and plus he didn't realize he 70 00:03:36,420 --> 00:03:34,150 had to get permission from the History 71 00:03:37,890 --> 00:03:36,430 Channel to do the interview so we've 72 00:03:40,020 --> 00:03:37,900 been working with them and that's what's 73 00:03:41,580 --> 00:03:40,030 been kind of weird so what's funny and 74 00:03:43,589 --> 00:03:41,590 I'll tell people about that just a 75 00:03:45,569 --> 00:03:43,599 minute is we've been in contact so I've 76 00:03:47,729 --> 00:03:45,579 been able to get some answers from him 77 00:03:50,129 --> 00:03:47,739 on various things that have happened but 78 00:03:51,569 --> 00:03:50,139 and I've shared some with you so I'm 79 00:03:53,339 --> 00:03:51,579 still getting these kind of mini 80 00:03:55,559 --> 00:03:53,349 interviews in the background but our 81 00:03:57,720 --> 00:03:55,569 actual interview now cannot happen until 82 00:04:02,339 --> 00:03:57,730 the show airs so as soon as the show 83 00:04:05,339 --> 00:04:02,349 airs May 31st that weekend we'll do the 84 00:04:07,259 --> 00:04:05,349 interview and so the the essentially 85 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:07,269 show right after the first show of the 86 00:04:12,479 --> 00:04:09,970 History Channel's unidentified will be 87 00:04:14,099 --> 00:04:12,489 the Lou Elizondo interview so you know I 88 00:04:16,770 --> 00:04:14,109 can understand why they're doing that I 89 00:04:18,990 --> 00:04:16,780 mean yeah may not want any little 90 00:04:21,569 --> 00:04:19,000 tidbits thrown out there that they're 91 00:04:23,460 --> 00:04:21,579 you know that would be important to the 92 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:23,470 show itself so I kind of get why they're 93 00:04:27,300 --> 00:04:25,690 weathered yeah yeah and it's kind of 94 00:04:29,219 --> 00:04:27,310 funny because I've written a couple 95 00:04:32,219 --> 00:04:29,229 stories we haven't posted on den of geek 96 00:04:34,230 --> 00:04:32,229 yet and this podcast you know covers a 97 00:04:36,330 --> 00:04:34,240 lot of the background well I was able to 98 00:04:38,670 --> 00:04:36,340 get a view of the first episode I'm not 99 00:04:40,890 --> 00:04:38,680 sure if I even told you this yet and it 100 00:04:43,020 --> 00:04:40,900 is really good I think people are gonna 101 00:04:45,270 --> 00:04:43,030 be floored Karen my girlfriend the owner 102 00:04:47,670 --> 00:04:45,280 of the UFO Congress she says it was her 103 00:04:50,159 --> 00:04:47,680 favorite UFO show ever I mean it's 104 00:04:51,990 --> 00:04:50,169 amazing that it's a UFO show weather 105 00:04:55,230 --> 00:04:52,000 where it's very accurate I 106 00:04:57,210 --> 00:04:55,240 so I you know I'm well know I know the 107 00:04:59,430 --> 00:04:57,220 background to everything they covered 108 00:05:01,800 --> 00:04:59,440 and it was very accurate but it goes 109 00:05:02,220 --> 00:05:01,810 over you know Chris Mellon plays a big 110 00:05:06,840 --> 00:05:02,230 role 111 00:05:09,660 --> 00:05:06,850 is kind of the main guy and it goes over 112 00:05:12,090 --> 00:05:09,670 their backgrounds and just to have the 113 00:05:16,170 --> 00:05:12,100 high level of credibility that these 114 00:05:18,630 --> 00:05:16,180 people have to be doing a show on UFOs 115 00:05:21,180 --> 00:05:18,640 and being and talking about it seriously 116 00:05:23,610 --> 00:05:21,190 in conducting serious investigations I 117 00:05:26,940 --> 00:05:23,620 think this show is incredibly important 118 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:26,950 and I think that all of our UFO buddies 119 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:30,370 are gonna love it now are the UFO crowd 120 00:05:35,940 --> 00:05:34,450 always surprises me they have you know 121 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:35,950 there's more negativity than I could 122 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:38,050 have ever imagined that happens 123 00:05:41,940 --> 00:05:40,810 sometimes but we'll see what people in 124 00:05:43,860 --> 00:05:41,950 that pick I don't think there's a lot to 125 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:43,870 nitpick I think more there's a lot to be 126 00:05:48,870 --> 00:05:45,970 excited about with the show well that's 127 00:05:50,790 --> 00:05:48,880 great and yeah so you got to see I think 128 00:05:52,290 --> 00:05:50,800 that I forget what this screener is what 129 00:05:54,030 --> 00:05:52,300 they call them you get to see the 130 00:05:56,280 --> 00:05:54,040 screener are they gonna show you other 131 00:05:58,940 --> 00:05:56,290 episodes are just that number one that's 132 00:06:01,530 --> 00:05:58,950 it I'm not sure we've actually asked and 133 00:06:03,090 --> 00:06:01,540 they have said that they're not sure 134 00:06:05,130 --> 00:06:03,100 it'll probably just be this first 135 00:06:07,860 --> 00:06:05,140 episode before the show airs so it might 136 00:06:09,990 --> 00:06:07,870 be this might be it I'm hoping that I'll 137 00:06:12,510 --> 00:06:10,000 get early looks for all of the shows to 138 00:06:14,730 --> 00:06:12,520 prepare reviews early that doesn't 139 00:06:16,590 --> 00:06:14,740 always happen with Blue Book they gave 140 00:06:20,100 --> 00:06:16,600 us a few episodes but not all of them 141 00:06:22,620 --> 00:06:20,110 yeah so we'll see that's yet to be seen 142 00:06:24,060 --> 00:06:22,630 but this first one is really good a 143 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:24,070 couple other people have gotten and I 144 00:06:31,380 --> 00:06:27,370 know Ryan Sprague and MJ baniyas and I 145 00:06:33,210 --> 00:06:31,390 know they both really really liked it MJ 146 00:06:34,650 --> 00:06:33,220 is of course more critical of things but 147 00:06:37,020 --> 00:06:34,660 heave and really liked it I haven't 148 00:06:40,020 --> 00:06:37,030 listened to his full review yet yeah 149 00:06:42,840 --> 00:06:40,030 yeah he does great yeah I like watching 150 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:42,850 his reviews he's fun yeah so what else 151 00:06:47,159 --> 00:06:45,370 is going on so a couple of big pieces of 152 00:06:48,570 --> 00:06:47,169 news that I want to cover first I do 153 00:06:52,650 --> 00:06:48,580 want to mention I'm wearing my UFO 154 00:06:55,140 --> 00:06:52,660 Congress hat you just save 40 save 40 155 00:06:57,780 --> 00:06:55,150 and your listeners can get $40 off 156 00:07:00,120 --> 00:06:57,790 ticket packages so save 40 at UFO 157 00:07:03,719 --> 00:07:00,130 Congress calm but the couple of pieces 158 00:07:05,730 --> 00:07:03,729 of news first of all the guy who's 159 00:07:08,249 --> 00:07:05,740 giving us all of the best news and 160 00:07:10,290 --> 00:07:08,259 keeping us up-to-date on what's going on 161 00:07:13,290 --> 00:07:10,300 is George Knapp and he has a new story 162 00:07:15,450 --> 00:07:13,300 at klas with his buddy Matt Adams who he 163 00:07:17,309 --> 00:07:15,460 does these stories with but they 164 00:07:20,100 --> 00:07:17,319 essentially got a hold of this form 165 00:07:21,450 --> 00:07:20,110 that's called a DD 1910 I think I might 166 00:07:24,659 --> 00:07:21,460 have to we might have talked about it 167 00:07:28,529 --> 00:07:24,669 before but what this form does is shows 168 00:07:32,129 --> 00:07:28,539 that the DoD did release these three 169 00:07:34,140 --> 00:07:32,139 videos these three FLIR Navy videos now 170 00:07:36,689 --> 00:07:34,150 we have to remember and Leslie Kane has 171 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:36,699 piped up recently actually to clarify 172 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:39,370 with people and and I've kind of spoken 173 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:39,970 to this 174 00:07:43,589 --> 00:07:41,770 there has been no doubt in the 175 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:43,599 mainstream as to the veracity of those 176 00:07:49,140 --> 00:07:47,050 videos a lot of UFO nerds like us I'm 177 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:49,150 certainly a UFO nerd we care about the 178 00:07:54,210 --> 00:07:52,210 details but most oh because right off 179 00:07:56,790 --> 00:07:54,220 the bat the New York Times said they got 180 00:07:58,620 --> 00:07:56,800 the videos from the DoD they they were 181 00:08:01,770 --> 00:07:58,630 able to vet them and make sure they were 182 00:08:03,719 --> 00:08:01,780 real and they were from the Navy so boom 183 00:08:05,820 --> 00:08:03,729 for most people that is good enough Nick 184 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:05,830 Pope even came in and backed up Leslie 185 00:08:09,420 --> 00:08:07,810 Kane and said you know because she was 186 00:08:11,100 --> 00:08:09,430 like I don't know why this is even in 187 00:08:13,980 --> 00:08:11,110 question but of course we verified all 188 00:08:15,839 --> 00:08:13,990 of this stuff and Nick Pope says yes the 189 00:08:18,450 --> 00:08:15,849 New York Times has a highest standards 190 00:08:21,689 --> 00:08:18,460 for checking the veracity of the details 191 00:08:23,459 --> 00:08:21,699 they make sure that everything is double 192 00:08:27,149 --> 00:08:23,469 check triple check to make sure it's all 193 00:08:30,930 --> 00:08:27,159 real and accurate so but this forum is 194 00:08:32,940 --> 00:08:30,940 from the DoD now it was leaked and so 195 00:08:35,670 --> 00:08:32,950 when George Knapp posted the story 196 00:08:37,860 --> 00:08:35,680 showing out displaying this form some 197 00:08:39,899 --> 00:08:37,870 people you know all of us were going to 198 00:08:43,290 --> 00:08:39,909 the DoD hey verify this tell us if this 199 00:08:45,300 --> 00:08:43,300 is real or not because in the past Zod 200 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:45,310 has told John Greenwald we had nothing 201 00:08:48,780 --> 00:08:47,290 to do with those videos and that was 202 00:08:52,110 --> 00:08:48,790 essentially what they said we have 203 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:52,120 nothing to do with those videos they got 204 00:08:56,130 --> 00:08:54,370 back to John Greenwald first and it's 205 00:08:58,530 --> 00:08:56,140 kind of funny that they oh and I knew it 206 00:09:01,740 --> 00:08:58,540 they always get to John Greenwald first 207 00:09:03,510 --> 00:09:01,750 and John is of course you've had him on 208 00:09:07,380 --> 00:09:03,520 the show more skeptical about things and 209 00:09:10,199 --> 00:09:07,390 I so he posted that this forum did not 210 00:09:13,110 --> 00:09:10,209 really show that the the DoD had 211 00:09:17,430 --> 00:09:13,120 released the videos and to be honest I'm 212 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:17,440 not even completely sure some people I 213 00:09:21,420 --> 00:09:19,450 will put it this way I wrote 214 00:09:23,730 --> 00:09:21,430 story to kind of clarify to go over 215 00:09:26,970 --> 00:09:23,740 every point in every little aspect of 216 00:09:29,690 --> 00:09:26,980 that document so we can talk about the 217 00:09:31,890 --> 00:09:29,700 different parts of it and why the DoD 218 00:09:34,470 --> 00:09:31,900 had said what they said they said the 219 00:09:37,860 --> 00:09:34,480 form is real which verifies these are 220 00:09:39,510 --> 00:09:37,870 real DoD videos and which also counters 221 00:09:40,590 --> 00:09:39,520 what they had said before that they have 222 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:40,600 nothing to do with it 223 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:42,250 they certainly did have nothing to do 224 00:09:46,170 --> 00:09:43,930 with it or something to do with it they 225 00:09:47,670 --> 00:09:46,180 release them at the end of their comment 226 00:09:50,490 --> 00:09:47,680 to John Greenwald though they did 227 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:50,500 comment that these were not approved for 228 00:09:54,630 --> 00:09:52,210 general public release you know 229 00:09:57,420 --> 00:09:54,640 something that's actually completely 230 00:10:00,060 --> 00:09:57,430 inaccurate this forum is a forum for 231 00:10:02,370 --> 00:10:00,070 public release it was approved by the 232 00:10:05,820 --> 00:10:02,380 Navy the name of the person in the Navy 233 00:10:07,170 --> 00:10:05,830 is withheld it's redacted but you know 234 00:10:08,970 --> 00:10:07,180 there is a section it shows it is 235 00:10:11,190 --> 00:10:08,980 someone from the Navy who was asked and 236 00:10:14,340 --> 00:10:11,200 boom there's a stamp of approval it was 237 00:10:17,220 --> 00:10:14,350 approved for public release now in the 238 00:10:19,020 --> 00:10:17,230 comments the person who requested that 239 00:10:22,410 --> 00:10:19,030 the videos be released and we don't know 240 00:10:24,690 --> 00:10:22,420 who this person is as of yet apparently 241 00:10:28,860 --> 00:10:24,700 Elizondo does know but he can't share 242 00:10:31,590 --> 00:10:28,870 that information yet but the person said 243 00:10:34,710 --> 00:10:31,600 that they were gonna share this with us 244 00:10:37,260 --> 00:10:34,720 G governmental agencies and also with 245 00:10:38,850 --> 00:10:37,270 industry partners for their databases so 246 00:10:41,310 --> 00:10:38,860 we can all kind of figure out what this 247 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:41,320 is almost like a crowdfunding sort of 248 00:10:45,420 --> 00:10:43,450 thing nowhere on there did it say that 249 00:10:48,270 --> 00:10:45,430 these databases could not be public 250 00:10:50,310 --> 00:10:48,280 facing and you know the way it was 251 00:10:51,750 --> 00:10:50,320 written to me sounds like they wanted to 252 00:10:54,570 --> 00:10:51,760 kind of crowdsource get this out to 253 00:10:55,860 --> 00:10:54,580 people and see what people think so 254 00:10:58,140 --> 00:10:55,870 certainly to the stars would be an 255 00:10:59,400 --> 00:10:58,150 industry partner and nothing is barring 256 00:11:00,930 --> 00:10:59,410 them from sharing it to the public 257 00:11:05,070 --> 00:11:00,940 that's what this is for a public release 258 00:11:06,540 --> 00:11:05,080 so it does not bar anybody from general 259 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:06,550 public release now it does have a 260 00:11:10,680 --> 00:11:08,410 sentence in there that said this is not 261 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:10,690 for publication we are not intending to 262 00:11:18,750 --> 00:11:16,450 publicize or for publication to publish 263 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:18,760 these videos a publication would be a 264 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:23,170 journal a book a New York Times story so 265 00:11:28,590 --> 00:11:25,810 this do deed form did not approve their 266 00:11:30,420 --> 00:11:28,600 videos for release in that fashion but 267 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:30,430 that's not what the writer was was 268 00:11:33,449 --> 00:11:32,770 seeking in the first place now at the 269 00:11:37,410 --> 00:11:33,459 New York Times 270 00:11:39,869 --> 00:11:37,420 is saying it's not telling us you know 271 00:11:41,549 --> 00:11:39,879 where they got the videos they're just 272 00:11:43,439 --> 00:11:41,559 saying they got them from the DoD they 273 00:11:46,169 --> 00:11:43,449 were vetted they were able to publish 274 00:11:48,929 --> 00:11:46,179 them so what their process was to get 275 00:11:51,419 --> 00:11:48,939 those videos published we don't know but 276 00:11:53,220 --> 00:11:51,429 at least this form does confirm and the 277 00:11:55,379 --> 00:11:53,230 DoD does confirm these videos are theirs 278 00:11:59,850 --> 00:11:55,389 so there's a lot of confusion around 279 00:12:01,679 --> 00:11:59,860 that piece but the big story which a lot 280 00:12:03,299 --> 00:12:01,689 of people are like why are why are we 281 00:12:05,699 --> 00:12:03,309 even debating any of this other stuff 282 00:12:08,009 --> 00:12:05,709 the big story is the DoD is confirming 283 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:08,019 they did release these videos these 284 00:12:14,069 --> 00:12:10,689 videos are real they are from the Navy 285 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:14,079 they are from Navy f-18s something that 286 00:12:17,730 --> 00:12:15,970 really the mainstream is not even 287 00:12:20,220 --> 00:12:17,740 questioned since the New York Times told 288 00:12:23,069 --> 00:12:20,230 us all of that but at least it verifies 289 00:12:26,069 --> 00:12:23,079 that all in the background so I do have 290 00:12:28,439 --> 00:12:26,079 on open minds that TV a link to George 291 00:12:30,030 --> 00:12:28,449 Knapp story it's the first one and then 292 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:30,040 a link to my story with some 293 00:12:34,439 --> 00:12:32,410 clarifications and I do link to John 294 00:12:36,269 --> 00:12:34,449 Greenwald so if you want to go look at 295 00:12:38,789 --> 00:12:36,279 John Green won't see what he has to say 296 00:12:40,919 --> 00:12:38,799 and his interpretation I've got links to 297 00:12:44,429 --> 00:12:40,929 all of that in there as well so you can 298 00:12:48,359 --> 00:12:44,439 go see what you think yourself now why 299 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:48,369 do you suppose that the person and the 300 00:12:54,449 --> 00:12:51,610 Pentagon would say not for for public 301 00:12:57,480 --> 00:12:54,459 release in an email it's a bizarre isn't 302 00:13:00,030 --> 00:12:57,490 it not really I don't think I think that 303 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:00,040 it's been obvious to me now this is me 304 00:13:06,539 --> 00:13:04,569 speculating but it's also me having this 305 00:13:10,439 --> 00:13:06,549 is educated speculation we've seen this 306 00:13:15,090 --> 00:13:10,449 before the DoD are all of these military 307 00:13:18,900 --> 00:13:15,100 public at you know public relations 308 00:13:20,609 --> 00:13:18,910 departments they obviously their first 309 00:13:23,999 --> 00:13:20,619 thought is how do we make us look good 310 00:13:27,389 --> 00:13:24,009 the second part is can I even get access 311 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:27,399 to this information a lot of times they 312 00:13:31,199 --> 00:13:29,410 don't they're not able to get access in 313 00:13:33,660 --> 00:13:31,209 fact Leslie Kane made a comment 314 00:13:35,579 --> 00:13:33,670 the reason the DoD is probably wrong so 315 00:13:38,970 --> 00:13:35,589 much on this is that it they don't have 316 00:13:41,009 --> 00:13:38,980 access it shuts a small program that is 317 00:13:43,169 --> 00:13:41,019 you know tucked away in the Pentagon 318 00:13:45,689 --> 00:13:43,179 here that they probably have a hard time 319 00:13:47,370 --> 00:13:45,699 finding any information she's like you 320 00:13:50,100 --> 00:13:47,380 know I've got experience with 321 00:13:51,630 --> 00:13:50,110 and she's ran into the same issues where 322 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:51,640 they just don't know where to look so 323 00:13:56,130 --> 00:13:53,410 they can't find the information and 324 00:13:58,290 --> 00:13:56,140 that's probably related to to what's 325 00:14:01,800 --> 00:13:58,300 going on and this happens all the time 326 00:14:04,770 --> 00:14:01,810 nearly every major UFO case the military 327 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:04,780 tells us something and then they correct 328 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:08,010 themselves later I mean this was done in 329 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:11,490 Stephenville this was done with the 330 00:14:17,730 --> 00:14:14,770 O'Hare incident it's done practically 331 00:14:19,890 --> 00:14:17,740 every time so is it a surprise that here 332 00:14:21,660 --> 00:14:19,900 again we have a big UFO case where they 333 00:14:24,330 --> 00:14:21,670 gave us wrong information at first and 334 00:14:26,490 --> 00:14:24,340 then corrected it later on it's not that 335 00:14:28,470 --> 00:14:26,500 surprising what is a little bit of 336 00:14:31,110 --> 00:14:28,480 surprising is they're kind of blatantly 337 00:14:34,290 --> 00:14:31,120 spinning in my opinion they either are 338 00:14:36,060 --> 00:14:34,300 embarrassed or kind of frustrated by 339 00:14:38,090 --> 00:14:36,070 this whole situation and you can't blame 340 00:14:41,130 --> 00:14:38,100 them Lou did not 341 00:14:43,170 --> 00:14:41,140 Elizondo did not say hey guys I'm gonna 342 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:43,180 retire and then I'm gonna tell everybody 343 00:14:48,330 --> 00:14:45,490 about this UFO project that I'm working 344 00:14:49,740 --> 00:14:48,340 on he did not clear this with the press 345 00:14:52,590 --> 00:14:49,750 department so they're probably very 346 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:52,600 frustrated with Lou that he would go out 347 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:54,370 there and do this which puts them in an 348 00:14:57,930 --> 00:14:55,810 odd position because now they have to 349 00:14:59,490 --> 00:14:57,940 answer all these questions about UFO 350 00:15:01,620 --> 00:14:59,500 stuff which they haven't been they 351 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:01,630 haven't been really talking to anybody 352 00:15:05,820 --> 00:15:04,330 but John Greenwald uh he's the only one 353 00:15:07,830 --> 00:15:05,830 they're talking to on a regular basis 354 00:15:09,030 --> 00:15:07,840 the rest of us they're ignoring or they 355 00:15:12,180 --> 00:15:09,040 say they're gonna come back with a 356 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:12,190 response and they don't so I think 357 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:13,930 that's what it is they're embarrassed 358 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:15,610 that they're proving themselves wrong 359 00:15:20,610 --> 00:15:18,130 and so they're just trying to save base 360 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:20,620 and at the same time they're they're not 361 00:15:25,260 --> 00:15:21,970 doing a very good job of it they're 362 00:15:26,450 --> 00:15:25,270 making themselves look bad and we just 363 00:15:29,250 --> 00:15:26,460 you know these are not often 364 00:15:31,740 --> 00:15:29,260 professional PR people these are often 365 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:31,750 people who take PR duty you know 366 00:15:37,260 --> 00:15:35,530 seriously I mean they're they're not 367 00:15:38,670 --> 00:15:37,270 professionals who are looking to get 368 00:15:41,940 --> 00:15:38,680 into the media to do this as a 369 00:15:44,220 --> 00:15:41,950 profession so they're just tasked with 370 00:15:45,420 --> 00:15:44,230 having to do this and if anybody's 371 00:15:48,150 --> 00:15:45,430 called them you kind of get that sense 372 00:15:50,460 --> 00:15:48,160 they if there's a vast difference 373 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:50,470 between a talking to publicists and 374 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:52,330 talking to the PR guys for the military 375 00:15:58,650 --> 00:15:55,330 hmm so I think all of this has to be all 376 00:16:00,790 --> 00:15:58,660 in play here and it's we've experienced 377 00:16:03,249 --> 00:16:00,800 this over and over again in the past 378 00:16:05,499 --> 00:16:03,259 dealing with their them I mean they are 379 00:16:06,669 --> 00:16:05,509 not the best source of the most accurate 380 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:06,679 information that's why you need the 381 00:16:10,660 --> 00:16:09,290 documents and that's what's great that 382 00:16:12,999 --> 00:16:10,670 people are pursuing to get these 383 00:16:14,919 --> 00:16:13,009 documents it's great that John verified 384 00:16:17,169 --> 00:16:14,929 that this document that George Knapp got 385 00:16:19,359 --> 00:16:17,179 was real in fact they verified it with 386 00:16:21,489 --> 00:16:19,369 Greenwald before they did with Knapp for 387 00:16:23,619 --> 00:16:21,499 some reason even though Knapp is an 388 00:16:25,569 --> 00:16:23,629 award-winning investigative journalist I 389 00:16:27,789 --> 00:16:25,579 mean that's more evidence that they're 390 00:16:29,289 --> 00:16:27,799 kind of playing games over there and who 391 00:16:31,150 --> 00:16:29,299 they're talking to and what information 392 00:16:32,919 --> 00:16:31,160 that they're giving people yeah like 393 00:16:35,889 --> 00:16:32,929 maybe that because John has like two 394 00:16:38,229 --> 00:16:35,899 million for you document documents that 395 00:16:39,579 --> 00:16:38,239 he's got yeah but anyway you know we're 396 00:16:41,289 --> 00:16:39,589 out of time did you have anything else 397 00:16:42,789 --> 00:16:41,299 you wanted to say real quickly yeah the 398 00:16:44,650 --> 00:16:42,799 only other thing that I wanted to say 399 00:16:46,210 --> 00:16:44,660 out there is that the other big story is 400 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:46,220 that the Navy had said they're not going 401 00:16:50,259 --> 00:16:48,410 to share any UFO information they 402 00:16:51,669 --> 00:16:50,269 receive well here's another thing where 403 00:16:54,039 --> 00:16:51,679 I've gotten some information from Lou 404 00:16:56,049 --> 00:16:54,049 Elizondo in Georgia Knapp story that I 405 00:16:58,449 --> 00:16:56,059 referred to earlier he interviews Chris 406 00:17:00,970 --> 00:16:58,459 melon and Chris melon actually gives him 407 00:17:03,429 --> 00:17:00,980 a statement on how to the Stars was 408 00:17:06,789 --> 00:17:03,439 integral in getting the Navy to create 409 00:17:09,370 --> 00:17:06,799 these UFO guidelines and Lou is saying 410 00:17:10,809 --> 00:17:09,380 when I asked him that hey the Navy said 411 00:17:12,909 --> 00:17:10,819 that they're not gonna release the data 412 00:17:14,740 --> 00:17:12,919 but that's not the full story we've been 413 00:17:17,049 --> 00:17:14,750 working behind the scenes we know the 414 00:17:19,539 --> 00:17:17,059 Navy's not gonna release their raw data 415 00:17:21,669 --> 00:17:19,549 to the public but that information will 416 00:17:23,199 --> 00:17:21,679 be given to Congress it will be given to 417 00:17:25,809 --> 00:17:23,209 their leadership and then that 418 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:25,819 information will be taken and summarized 419 00:17:30,700 --> 00:17:28,210 for the public so we will see 420 00:17:32,889 --> 00:17:30,710 information about what the Navy is 421 00:17:35,379 --> 00:17:32,899 collecting on UFOs the example he gave 422 00:17:37,210 --> 00:17:35,389 was new North Korea and their nukes we 423 00:17:39,129 --> 00:17:37,220 don't know details about where their 424 00:17:41,230 --> 00:17:39,139 nukes are what their you know everything 425 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:41,240 that's been retrieved that way with the 426 00:17:45,490 --> 00:17:43,490 data but we do get public information 427 00:17:47,350 --> 00:17:45,500 about summaries of of their nuclear 428 00:17:49,930 --> 00:17:47,360 program and that's the sort of thing we 429 00:17:51,669 --> 00:17:49,940 will get information so that's not 430 00:17:53,129 --> 00:17:51,679 completely accurate all these headlines 431 00:17:55,450 --> 00:17:53,139 that the Navy's gonna keep it all secret 432 00:17:57,669 --> 00:17:55,460 excellent all right alejandro thanks so 433 00:17:59,139 --> 00:17:57,679 much yep my pleasure all right I'll talk 434 00:18:00,970 --> 00:17:59,149 to you next week thank you talk to you 435 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:00,980 later all right all right everyone so 436 00:18:08,649 --> 00:18:04,250 our guest our guest is Paul Carr and 437 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:08,659 he's had a lifelong fascination with the 438 00:18:14,530 --> 00:18:10,730 exploration of outer space and all 439 00:18:17,530 --> 00:18:14,540 things unexplained and let's see he 440 00:18:21,930 --> 00:18:17,540 has been a spacecraft systems engineer a 441 00:18:25,030 --> 00:18:21,940 career that now spans about 38 years and 442 00:18:27,940 --> 00:18:25,040 he while working at the Applied Physics 443 00:18:31,270 --> 00:18:27,950 lab in Maryland he earned his MS and 444 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:31,280 Applied Physics from John Hopkins and in 445 00:18:37,570 --> 00:18:34,850 2011 he was recruited to join the aerial 446 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:37,580 phenomenon investigations team API we'll 447 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:41,810 be talking about that and back in 2017 448 00:18:47,550 --> 00:18:43,970 he took over as director of that and 449 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:47,560 this is an independent organization that 450 00:18:52,330 --> 00:18:51,170 invests investigate UFOs worldwide so 451 00:18:55,150 --> 00:18:52,340 welcome to the show 452 00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:55,160 well thanks Marv trapped me on thank you 453 00:19:00,340 --> 00:18:56,930 and you know I was looking like it was 454 00:19:02,470 --> 00:19:00,350 backed up four years ago a lots changed 455 00:19:04,660 --> 00:19:02,480 in the four years that that's when you 456 00:19:06,940 --> 00:19:04,670 were on last time yes it has 457 00:19:09,010 --> 00:19:06,950 yeah and back then we were doing the 458 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:09,020 one-hour shows now we got two hours and 459 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:12,290 we're we're on a great radio station and 460 00:19:17,110 --> 00:19:14,450 all kinds of good stuff here but anyway 461 00:19:20,410 --> 00:19:17,120 thank you and we do I want to say that 462 00:19:21,790 --> 00:19:20,420 we do have a lot of new listeners to the 463 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:21,800 show there's new listeners every week I 464 00:19:27,460 --> 00:19:25,850 get email it's really amazing how I 465 00:19:30,700 --> 00:19:27,470 would say within the last year how many 466 00:19:32,650 --> 00:19:30,710 people are listening now to the show can 467 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:32,660 you give them for the person that didn't 468 00:19:35,890 --> 00:19:34,250 listen four years ago 469 00:19:39,190 --> 00:19:35,900 please give your background if you would 470 00:19:42,220 --> 00:19:39,200 and what got you in interested in UFOs 471 00:19:46,030 --> 00:19:42,230 well as you mentioned I've been involved 472 00:19:50,890 --> 00:19:46,040 in the space field for well since I got 473 00:19:54,340 --> 00:19:50,900 out of college and we've and I was a 474 00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:54,350 Sputnik baby I'm born in 1958 Yeah right 475 00:19:59,050 --> 00:19:56,810 a few months after split so there was 476 00:20:00,340 --> 00:19:59,060 this big panic on about oh my gosh we 477 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:00,350 have to catch up on science and 478 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:03,410 engineering as oh uh there was that big 479 00:20:09,790 --> 00:20:06,050 push to get all US little kids into 480 00:20:13,270 --> 00:20:09,800 space and into sigh and you know I was I 481 00:20:17,470 --> 00:20:13,280 was totally right there with that that 482 00:20:19,570 --> 00:20:17,480 whole program and I was 11 years old 483 00:20:23,020 --> 00:20:19,580 when Neil Armstrong set his foot on the 484 00:20:26,660 --> 00:20:23,030 moon and I was really jealous Oh Neil I 485 00:20:30,110 --> 00:20:26,670 wanted I wanted to be him and 486 00:20:36,289 --> 00:20:30,120 I even fantasized about stowing away on 487 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:36,299 the capsule that was over well I don't 488 00:20:38,990 --> 00:20:38,490 yeah every I couldn't think of a good 489 00:20:43,580 --> 00:20:39,000 plan 490 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:43,590 anyway the in when I was at that of 491 00:20:50,150 --> 00:20:45,210 course also in the 60s what was going on 492 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:50,160 was a lot of UFO stuff around a lot of 493 00:20:57,799 --> 00:20:52,890 books that were available at any public 494 00:21:00,049 --> 00:20:57,809 library or it wasn't all stuck away in 495 00:21:05,060 --> 00:21:00,059 the news New Age section of the 496 00:21:07,850 --> 00:21:05,070 bookstore and so I had a lot of exposure 497 00:21:10,340 --> 00:21:07,860 to that I did I didn't think a great 498 00:21:13,730 --> 00:21:10,350 deal of it until I was a little older I 499 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:13,740 started reading some books I actually to 500 00:21:19,159 --> 00:21:16,490 join NICAP you had to have $5 for the 501 00:21:21,890 --> 00:21:19,169 membership fee and I started saving 502 00:21:24,950 --> 00:21:21,900 which by the way $5 for a ten-year-old 503 00:21:28,970 --> 00:21:24,960 kid in 1968 was a lot of money it was I 504 00:21:30,830 --> 00:21:28,980 remember yeah and so I started putting 505 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:30,840 my pennies to stuff in a box and I was 506 00:21:37,789 --> 00:21:34,410 going to join ICAP and I can't everyone 507 00:21:39,230 --> 00:21:37,799 after that plan but I never I don't 508 00:21:40,970 --> 00:21:39,240 remember ever getting Wonder newsletters 509 00:21:45,530 --> 00:21:40,980 I think they folded around that around 510 00:21:46,940 --> 00:21:45,540 that time but because I was really 511 00:21:48,140 --> 00:21:46,950 interested I want to end when I was 512 00:21:54,919 --> 00:21:48,150 reading now a lot of that was just sort 513 00:21:57,789 --> 00:21:54,929 of the pulp press you know and just 514 00:22:00,980 --> 00:21:57,799 books I could find in the library and 515 00:22:03,740 --> 00:22:00,990 but when I was a teenager my dad and I 516 00:22:08,710 --> 00:22:03,750 were out walking one night probably 517 00:22:15,010 --> 00:22:08,720 about I think 1971 something like that 518 00:22:17,270 --> 00:22:15,020 and we had we I had my first sighting 519 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:17,280 these were lights but there were a lot 520 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:19,530 of lights and they were brightly colored 521 00:22:24,710 --> 00:22:21,690 lights and were dancing around each 522 00:22:27,250 --> 00:22:24,720 other and moving very fast and my dad 523 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:27,260 saw too although we didn't speak of it 524 00:22:31,669 --> 00:22:30,210 after that really uh which i think is 525 00:22:33,530 --> 00:22:31,679 pretty common a lot of Vienna families 526 00:22:38,990 --> 00:22:33,540 and you hear that hey I remember this 527 00:22:43,580 --> 00:22:41,779 you know that it was upsetting to his 528 00:22:45,500 --> 00:22:43,590 worldview and I'd been to mine as well I 529 00:22:49,549 --> 00:22:45,510 was already an aspiring scientist and 530 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:49,559 engineer and now I didn't see another 531 00:22:54,919 --> 00:22:52,890 UFO again for many many years but I was 532 00:22:57,680 --> 00:22:54,929 interested I went off and got my degree 533 00:23:01,460 --> 00:22:57,690 in science and it and I was thinking 534 00:23:04,310 --> 00:23:01,470 well you know maybe the self can all be 535 00:23:06,649 --> 00:23:04,320 explained and I don't really have time 536 00:23:12,260 --> 00:23:06,659 to deal with it and it wasn't until much 537 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:12,270 later in the in the 90s that my interest 538 00:23:19,789 --> 00:23:17,730 revived again and I did have a rather 539 00:23:23,149 --> 00:23:19,799 unusual experience weekend with 540 00:23:26,299 --> 00:23:23,159 nocturnal lights that were that I I 541 00:23:28,130 --> 00:23:26,309 still can't fully explain I suppose it 542 00:23:33,020 --> 00:23:28,140 could have been a hoax but it would have 543 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:33,030 been a very elaborate one and so I I was 544 00:23:39,110 --> 00:23:34,530 puzzled by the I still am puzzled by 545 00:23:41,419 --> 00:23:39,120 that experience and I started thinking 546 00:23:45,140 --> 00:23:41,429 about it quite a lot and started 547 00:23:46,580 --> 00:23:45,150 researching online I was involved in 548 00:23:49,370 --> 00:23:46,590 some of the bulletin board stuff in the 549 00:23:53,299 --> 00:23:49,380 early days you know the the continent 550 00:23:54,620 --> 00:23:53,309 CompuServe yeah yeah and a problem many 551 00:23:57,590 --> 00:23:54,630 relationships probably aren't old enough 552 00:24:00,919 --> 00:23:57,600 to remember CompuServe but I'll to vist 553 00:24:05,120 --> 00:24:00,929 that yeah the Altaf years yeah yeah I 554 00:24:06,649 --> 00:24:05,130 had but I had I got into that and I was 555 00:24:12,649 --> 00:24:06,659 a little bit disappointed in the culture 556 00:24:15,140 --> 00:24:12,659 and and I was witness to a lot of the 557 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:15,150 disinformation that was flying around 558 00:24:19,310 --> 00:24:17,970 back then most people weren't by the way 559 00:24:25,549 --> 00:24:19,320 most people weren't suckered in by it 560 00:24:27,799 --> 00:24:25,559 but the and then this went on for a very 561 00:24:31,940 --> 00:24:27,809 long time and as you mentioned earlier 562 00:24:34,039 --> 00:24:31,950 and my interest would wax and wane with 563 00:24:38,630 --> 00:24:34,049 other things going on I had a family I 564 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:38,640 had other things to deal with and in 565 00:24:45,500 --> 00:24:41,610 2011 just as my kids stopped being so 566 00:24:47,810 --> 00:24:45,510 little you know I the I was contacted to 567 00:24:49,070 --> 00:24:47,820 join API and I thought well you know 568 00:24:50,750 --> 00:24:49,080 this is what I don't do I want to get 569 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:50,760 out there and talk to people who've seen 570 00:24:54,050 --> 00:24:52,050 UFOs 571 00:24:57,530 --> 00:24:54,060 I don't want to read about it online 572 00:24:59,780 --> 00:24:57,540 anymore so much I want to actually go 573 00:25:02,110 --> 00:24:59,790 talk to these people and are they crazy 574 00:25:05,360 --> 00:25:02,120 are they are they 575 00:25:06,470 --> 00:25:05,370 rednecks ignorant what are what kind of 576 00:25:09,530 --> 00:25:06,480 people are they 577 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:09,540 and really you know try to understand 578 00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:10,770 their experiences understand my 579 00:25:16,310 --> 00:25:13,170 experience in terms of theirs and and in 580 00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:16,320 the meantime I'd had another couple of 581 00:25:23,830 --> 00:25:20,850 experiences again one one which one was 582 00:25:28,340 --> 00:25:23,840 I would consider a close encounter and 583 00:25:32,690 --> 00:25:28,350 the which puzzles me to this day what 584 00:25:35,030 --> 00:25:32,700 that was but that and I was very 585 00:25:37,580 --> 00:25:35,040 disappointed in myself I did a poor job 586 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:37,590 of documenting that sighting and so I 587 00:25:40,820 --> 00:25:39,090 said well let's get into this figure how 588 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:40,830 to document sightings how to how to get 589 00:25:47,830 --> 00:25:44,490 it right and our director at the time in 590 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:47,840 Antonio Paris had a lot of background in 591 00:25:53,710 --> 00:25:49,770 investigation he'd been an investigator 592 00:25:56,420 --> 00:25:53,720 for the federal government and he had 593 00:25:59,090 --> 00:25:56,430 after he'd be after he left the army and 594 00:26:02,240 --> 00:25:59,100 had so he understood investigated 595 00:26:04,190 --> 00:26:02,250 procedure and so on so that's I did I 596 00:26:06,380 --> 00:26:04,200 said well this guy can teach me how to 597 00:26:08,300 --> 00:26:06,390 do investigations and that's what 598 00:26:11,900 --> 00:26:08,310 happened and we did a lot of 599 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:11,910 investigations and we had some really 600 00:26:16,700 --> 00:26:14,690 good cases we had lots of bad cases and 601 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:16,710 I got out there and talked to those 602 00:26:22,220 --> 00:26:19,410 people and and what I learned was no 603 00:26:26,150 --> 00:26:22,230 they're by and large not crazy not 604 00:26:29,330 --> 00:26:26,160 stupid not ignorant and perfectly 605 00:26:31,670 --> 00:26:29,340 functional normal adults many of whom 606 00:26:35,450 --> 00:26:31,680 are actually rather bright yeah and I 607 00:26:38,450 --> 00:26:35,460 know who's surprising me as well not a 608 00:26:44,540 --> 00:26:38,460 stereotype right of the the ignorant 609 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:44,550 hick mm-hmm who sees the light this guy 610 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:46,770 and thinks it's somebody from Mars right 611 00:26:52,730 --> 00:26:49,890 that that's the majority the people we 612 00:26:55,730 --> 00:26:52,740 talk to do not have a theory they do not 613 00:26:58,190 --> 00:26:55,740 say ah that was the great man from his 614 00:27:00,140 --> 00:26:58,200 ata Reticuli they said I saw something I 615 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:00,150 don't understand it can you help me 616 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:02,850 understand it and that was what we did 617 00:27:07,790 --> 00:27:05,490 in many cases we were able to 618 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:07,800 explain what they saw and we still 619 00:27:15,230 --> 00:27:09,690 that's still the case most of the cases 620 00:27:17,090 --> 00:27:15,240 we get in we have we're able to do 621 00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:17,100 enough investigation is to make a 622 00:27:21,919 --> 00:27:19,650 positive identification of some known 623 00:27:23,990 --> 00:27:21,929 phenomenon right that which happens like 624 00:27:26,090 --> 00:27:24,000 you say most of the time we're right at 625 00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:26,100 break right now so we're gonna head in 626 00:27:32,990 --> 00:27:29,570 to break so and hang in there with me 627 00:27:35,510 --> 00:27:33,000 we'll still be talking on YouTube so my 628 00:27:36,740 --> 00:27:35,520 guest tonight is Paul Carr and when we 629 00:27:38,690 --> 00:27:36,750 come back I'm going to be asking him 630 00:27:40,340 --> 00:27:38,700 about his close encounter we need more 631 00:27:43,370 --> 00:27:40,350 information on that and we'll continue 632 00:27:45,650 --> 00:27:43,380 talking about investigations that he's 633 00:27:47,750 --> 00:27:45,660 currently doing and so hang in there 634 00:27:51,820 --> 00:27:47,760 everyone we'll be right back right after 635 00:27:57,500 --> 00:27:54,530 we're clear Martin sorry I didn't see 636 00:27:58,070 --> 00:27:57,510 your message there I didn't have a chat 637 00:27:59,210 --> 00:27:58,080 window 638 00:28:03,470 --> 00:27:59,220 that's all right how many minutes we 639 00:28:06,169 --> 00:28:03,480 have here 1 2 3 4 minutes and 15 seconds 640 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:06,179 got it okay all right so we are still 641 00:28:12,290 --> 00:28:10,170 alive we are alive on YouTube and so 642 00:28:13,850 --> 00:28:12,300 Paul we'll continue that conversation we 643 00:28:15,140 --> 00:28:13,860 would come back right now I'm gonna look 644 00:28:17,150 --> 00:28:15,150 to see if we have any questions that 645 00:28:20,030 --> 00:28:17,160 anyone can post a question up on the in 646 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:20,040 the chat room and when you were here 647 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:23,210 before Paul if I don't see any questions 648 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:26,970 right now I'm gonna ask you because I 649 00:28:32,210 --> 00:28:29,090 remember you said something that was 650 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:32,220 pretty good you said something along the 651 00:28:38,419 --> 00:28:35,010 lines is we got to drain the swamp the 652 00:28:43,810 --> 00:28:38,429 UFO swamp yeah yeah well that that 653 00:28:49,100 --> 00:28:47,000 people saying that the this the swamp 654 00:28:51,799 --> 00:28:49,110 this no the swamp is not drained but the 655 00:28:53,650 --> 00:28:51,809 drain is swamped or it's more of more 656 00:28:56,150 --> 00:28:53,660 Gators got into the swamp 657 00:28:58,940 --> 00:28:56,160 yeah we got to stay away from that topic 658 00:29:02,270 --> 00:28:58,950 you should see the mail I get yeah well 659 00:29:03,710 --> 00:29:02,280 anyway yeah well that as you know as I'm 660 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:03,720 sure many of your readers or listeners 661 00:29:16,540 --> 00:29:11,610 know there's a lot of stuff in the UFO 662 00:29:19,049 --> 00:29:16,550 field that is highly inaccurate and 663 00:29:21,330 --> 00:29:19,059 highly speculative 664 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:21,340 and also people just a lot of people 665 00:29:24,269 --> 00:29:22,690 would just like to fight you know they 666 00:29:27,299 --> 00:29:24,279 like they want to their look they're 667 00:29:30,139 --> 00:29:27,309 looking for a fight yes and we don't 668 00:29:33,029 --> 00:29:30,149 want anything to do with any of that 669 00:29:37,860 --> 00:29:33,039 we didn't so you know some people might 670 00:29:42,169 --> 00:29:37,870 call it woo woo you know saying and so 671 00:29:45,749 --> 00:29:42,179 what we are trying to do is actually 672 00:29:48,810 --> 00:29:45,759 bring in a scientific approach now I'm 673 00:29:50,190 --> 00:29:48,820 not saying science science is something 674 00:29:55,739 --> 00:29:50,200 we're not we haven't arrived at yet 675 00:29:59,430 --> 00:29:55,749 science is a big deal but we are we want 676 00:30:03,239 --> 00:29:59,440 to take a genuinely scientific approach 677 00:30:06,210 --> 00:30:03,249 a dogma free we don't we don't think we 678 00:30:08,460 --> 00:30:06,220 don't everybody at API has their own 679 00:30:15,419 --> 00:30:08,470 idea what UFOs probably are 680 00:30:17,159 --> 00:30:15,429 IMI ideas too and but what we're really 681 00:30:20,489 --> 00:30:17,169 trying to go get is get at the facts 682 00:30:23,310 --> 00:30:20,499 create a database of well investigated 683 00:30:26,690 --> 00:30:23,320 cases where we determine all the facts 684 00:30:31,109 --> 00:30:26,700 that we can and try to figure out how to 685 00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:31,119 if it's even possible to do science with 686 00:30:36,210 --> 00:30:33,490 within this field we don't even know 687 00:30:38,749 --> 00:30:36,220 that it's possible yeah I mean there's a 688 00:30:43,529 --> 00:30:38,759 fleeting the fleeting element for one 689 00:30:47,580 --> 00:30:43,539 transient element there's as far as you 690 00:30:49,379 --> 00:30:47,590 can't replicate it's really tricky well 691 00:30:50,700 --> 00:30:49,389 note that you know that but science has 692 00:30:55,350 --> 00:30:50,710 dealt with that problem before 693 00:30:58,409 --> 00:30:55,360 successfully mmm scientists study very 694 00:31:01,259 --> 00:30:58,419 well tornadoes earthquakes gamma-ray 695 00:31:03,389 --> 00:31:01,269 bursts supernovas and things that only 696 00:31:06,419 --> 00:31:03,399 good point that yeah where the event is 697 00:31:08,669 --> 00:31:06,429 unique but there are more events like it 698 00:31:11,190 --> 00:31:08,679 and so what they can what they do is 699 00:31:13,230 --> 00:31:11,200 they look for patterns in the in the 700 00:31:17,039 --> 00:31:13,240 multiple events and they found well we 701 00:31:19,230 --> 00:31:17,049 can classify this and and study that and 702 00:31:21,450 --> 00:31:19,240 eventually models get built up and they 703 00:31:25,649 --> 00:31:21,460 start to understand it better and better 704 00:31:26,970 --> 00:31:25,659 over the years and you know some of them 705 00:31:28,889 --> 00:31:26,980 are just really really difficult 706 00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:28,899 problems to solve like how do you 707 00:31:31,740 --> 00:31:30,850 forecast a tornado more than say five 708 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:31,750 minutes in advance 709 00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:32,370 very 710 00:31:37,340 --> 00:31:34,050 difficult yeah just let you know we got 711 00:31:42,530 --> 00:31:37,350 about 30 30 seconds I think before we go 712 00:31:46,700 --> 00:31:42,540 back on K grea wow you're right about 713 00:31:49,220 --> 00:31:46,710 that and you know I always mention you 714 00:31:53,690 --> 00:31:49,230 know dark matter and you know I mean 715 00:31:58,370 --> 00:31:53,700 that is that's non-observable but it 716 00:32:01,970 --> 00:31:58,380 might be well yeah it will find out 717 00:32:04,510 --> 00:32:01,980 someday I think yeah what it is yeah 718 00:32:07,850 --> 00:32:04,520 hey race just interrupt when you have to 719 00:32:10,220 --> 00:32:07,860 you got it yeah 720 00:32:15,470 --> 00:32:10,230 so we're going back in like 10 10 15 721 00:32:20,180 --> 00:32:15,480 seconds right so we're going to go when 722 00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:20,190 we go back I'm going to you can continue 723 00:32:25,220 --> 00:32:22,050 where you were but I really want to know 724 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:25,230 about your encounter okay yeah I'm happy 725 00:32:30,950 --> 00:32:29,250 to tell talk about that yeah it was a it 726 00:32:33,020 --> 00:32:30,960 bugs me every day yeah 727 00:32:38,750 --> 00:32:33,030 oh wow okay I'll be back we're going 728 00:32:40,669 --> 00:32:38,760 back race I just got the bumper rolling 729 00:32:46,210 --> 00:32:40,679 we're ready to go okay we're ready on 730 00:32:49,370 --> 00:32:46,220 this side in five four three two all 731 00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:49,380 right welcome back this is Martin Willis 732 00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:52,530 my guest tonight is Paul Carr and right 733 00:33:00,260 --> 00:32:55,730 before the break he was discussing his 734 00:33:03,140 --> 00:33:00,270 investigations for API and but I do want 735 00:33:04,820 --> 00:33:03,150 to ask him I want to ask you Paul about 736 00:33:06,260 --> 00:33:04,830 your encounter can you get into the 737 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:06,270 details and you just mentioned while 738 00:33:10,610 --> 00:33:08,370 we're on break here that it bothers you 739 00:33:12,740 --> 00:33:10,620 everyday and that's that's interesting 740 00:33:14,630 --> 00:33:12,750 to me well part of it part of the what 741 00:33:17,390 --> 00:33:14,640 bothers me is that I did a such a poor 742 00:33:20,780 --> 00:33:17,400 job of documenting it at the time which 743 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:20,790 a lot of the things that I that I tell 744 00:33:27,860 --> 00:33:23,730 witnesses to do now that are good prayer 745 00:33:30,020 --> 00:33:27,870 I didn't do like make a sketch I always 746 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:30,030 tell witnesses please first thing go 747 00:33:33,650 --> 00:33:32,010 grab a piece of paper and make a sketch 748 00:33:35,060 --> 00:33:33,660 of what you saw there's science that 749 00:33:38,299 --> 00:33:35,070 says that that helps you even remember 750 00:33:40,550 --> 00:33:38,309 it better and and also it helps us 751 00:33:44,750 --> 00:33:40,560 investigate better so make the sketch 752 00:33:45,890 --> 00:33:44,760 and probably before even write anything 753 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:45,900 down and more 754 00:33:48,980 --> 00:33:47,490 just make a sketch we've had some 755 00:33:51,050 --> 00:33:48,990 witnesses that have done beautifully at 756 00:33:56,180 --> 00:33:51,060 that by the way without being asked so 757 00:33:58,550 --> 00:33:56,190 they're smarter than I am but the the 758 00:34:00,740 --> 00:33:58,560 thing this was a nice warm summer day 759 00:34:10,550 --> 00:34:00,750 you know I don't even know the date but 760 00:34:12,710 --> 00:34:10,560 it was around 2007 and I was out in the 761 00:34:14,690 --> 00:34:12,720 front yard and my kids and some neighbor 762 00:34:16,790 --> 00:34:14,700 kids and some neighbor adults were 763 00:34:19,399 --> 00:34:16,800 they're out there and they they they 764 00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:19,409 were they were all standing in the 765 00:34:26,030 --> 00:34:22,010 driveway and I was for some reason 766 00:34:27,919 --> 00:34:26,040 standing a ways away from them towards 767 00:34:31,130 --> 00:34:27,929 almost on the street and not on the 768 00:34:33,530 --> 00:34:31,140 driveway on the lawn and they were my 769 00:34:34,940 --> 00:34:33,540 wife and some other the neighbor lady 770 00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:34,950 were in deep conversation the kids were 771 00:34:47,720 --> 00:34:42,690 running around playing and I just this 772 00:34:49,370 --> 00:34:47,730 no broad daylight and I looked up and I 773 00:34:51,889 --> 00:34:49,380 saw something that at first my brain did 774 00:34:57,610 --> 00:34:51,899 not register because it was just didn't 775 00:35:00,320 --> 00:34:57,620 make any sense there was this black slab 776 00:35:02,090 --> 00:35:00,330 colliding through the trees in my 777 00:35:05,390 --> 00:35:02,100 neighbor my next-door neighbor's yard 778 00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:05,400 and now I have to explain that between 779 00:35:09,110 --> 00:35:07,290 our yards there was a line of trees 780 00:35:13,250 --> 00:35:09,120 including a great big white pine and 781 00:35:15,170 --> 00:35:13,260 some other oak trees and so forth this 782 00:35:18,590 --> 00:35:15,180 part of Maryland is blessed with nice 783 00:35:22,490 --> 00:35:18,600 beautiful trees all everywhere and we 784 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:22,500 have you know just gliding in this look 785 00:35:27,530 --> 00:35:24,890 like a straight path but it was avoiding 786 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:27,540 lots of things it was avoiding my 787 00:35:35,720 --> 00:35:31,130 neighbor's house and several trees and 788 00:35:38,720 --> 00:35:35,730 eventually powerlines and it just glided 789 00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:38,730 and it at the closest approach it was 790 00:35:47,630 --> 00:35:43,770 probably 50 feet from me and wow that's 791 00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:47,640 very it was about the size of a car 792 00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:51,330 roughly but the flat side was facing me 793 00:35:59,180 --> 00:35:56,490 and the texture looked very rough and 794 00:35:59,960 --> 00:35:59,190 uneven but I couldn't see it great 795 00:36:01,820 --> 00:35:59,970 through the trees 796 00:36:06,740 --> 00:36:01,830 jeez I could just sort of see the big 797 00:36:08,270 --> 00:36:06,750 shape of it and I looked at other people 798 00:36:11,450 --> 00:36:08,280 the driver say what is that 799 00:36:17,180 --> 00:36:11,460 and nobody turned to look 800 00:36:18,830 --> 00:36:17,190 oh it was the strangest thing and the 801 00:36:20,450 --> 00:36:18,840 kids just kept playing and my my wife 802 00:36:22,910 --> 00:36:20,460 and then they were deep in conversation 803 00:36:24,950 --> 00:36:22,920 and probably not even and they didn't 804 00:36:26,359 --> 00:36:24,960 know sometimes I shout for no reason and 805 00:36:29,660 --> 00:36:26,369 I can't of course um I shot him my kids 806 00:36:33,700 --> 00:36:29,670 all the time so they didn't anything I 807 00:36:36,290 --> 00:36:33,710 think of it and I it was just flying by 808 00:36:38,690 --> 00:36:36,300 in a direction that takes it roughly we 809 00:36:42,770 --> 00:36:38,700 were in the Maryland suburbs of DC it 810 00:36:44,870 --> 00:36:42,780 was it was and if anybody wants to I can 811 00:36:48,859 --> 00:36:44,880 give you the the more details because we 812 00:36:52,730 --> 00:36:48,869 no longer lived with that house but if 813 00:36:56,180 --> 00:36:52,740 flew it somehow avoided the powerlines 814 00:36:58,010 --> 00:36:56,190 and the trees and I had looked I didn't 815 00:37:00,790 --> 00:36:58,020 see any broken branches or anything and 816 00:37:06,050 --> 00:37:00,800 it just went and it just glided gently 817 00:37:09,770 --> 00:37:06,060 no sound no sound at all again about the 818 00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:09,780 size of a car maybe 16 feet roughly give 819 00:37:14,930 --> 00:37:13,530 or take but it was between I know the 820 00:37:15,950 --> 00:37:14,940 things that I know it was behind it I 821 00:37:18,829 --> 00:37:15,960 don't know what's in front of so I know 822 00:37:21,950 --> 00:37:18,839 roughly how far away it was for me to 823 00:37:23,300 --> 00:37:21,960 you know probably pretty well so I sort 824 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:23,310 of stared at it and I thought I gotta 825 00:37:27,770 --> 00:37:25,410 run in the house get my camera I looked 826 00:37:30,890 --> 00:37:27,780 at the house I got no the house is 827 00:37:32,060 --> 00:37:30,900 hundred feet away and by the time I find 828 00:37:34,430 --> 00:37:32,070 the camera I get back here to look gone 829 00:37:36,890 --> 00:37:34,440 I didn't have I didn't my cell phone in 830 00:37:38,720 --> 00:37:36,900 my camera I didn't have a binoculars so 831 00:37:40,940 --> 00:37:38,730 I just ran out to the curb it had 832 00:37:45,140 --> 00:37:40,950 already gone past the curb and was 833 00:37:46,990 --> 00:37:45,150 flying oh I don't know maybe 30 miles an 834 00:37:51,349 --> 00:37:47,000 hour 835 00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:51,359 just and it somehow I'd it turned it was 836 00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:54,170 no longer the flat part was no longer 837 00:37:58,670 --> 00:37:56,970 vertical is now horizontal so I was 838 00:38:03,620 --> 00:37:58,680 looking at kind of like the the back of 839 00:38:06,650 --> 00:38:03,630 a slab that was horizontally oriented 840 00:38:10,130 --> 00:38:06,660 and it just at a very steady alter just 841 00:38:11,930 --> 00:38:10,140 flew off and until it was over you know 842 00:38:12,990 --> 00:38:11,940 behind trees and houses and I could sit 843 00:38:15,090 --> 00:38:13,000 anymore 844 00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:15,100 again there were lots of obstacles there 845 00:38:18,750 --> 00:38:16,330 but I just went right through between 846 00:38:21,450 --> 00:38:18,760 them all Wow without varying its course 847 00:38:28,770 --> 00:38:21,460 that in any perceptible way I just 848 00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:28,780 headed right towards DC and this you 849 00:38:33,660 --> 00:38:32,290 know my emotional state was more 850 00:38:35,310 --> 00:38:33,670 frustration than anything else because I 851 00:38:37,980 --> 00:38:35,320 couldn't I couldn't record it or 852 00:38:39,870 --> 00:38:37,990 anything but I was also you know I was 853 00:38:42,180 --> 00:38:39,880 also a little bit weirded out but nobody 854 00:38:43,740 --> 00:38:42,190 else noticed it yeah now that didn't 855 00:38:45,540 --> 00:38:43,750 really whenever really facing towards it 856 00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:45,550 like I was they might not have seen it 857 00:38:50,730 --> 00:38:49,690 but and this was I have Sarah so ever 858 00:38:54,870 --> 00:38:50,740 since that I've been on the lookout for 859 00:38:56,460 --> 00:38:54,880 a rectangular shaped black things flying 860 00:38:58,590 --> 00:38:56,470 around and we actually did get a case 861 00:39:02,940 --> 00:38:58,600 like that last year that I can talk 862 00:39:04,860 --> 00:39:02,950 about but uh so and if any of your 863 00:39:07,500 --> 00:39:04,870 listeners have seen a black rectangle I 864 00:39:11,630 --> 00:39:07,510 want to know please go to report a UFO 865 00:39:16,770 --> 00:39:11,640 dot o-r-g and and and let me know but 866 00:39:19,230 --> 00:39:16,780 excuse me but that was by far my closest 867 00:39:21,380 --> 00:39:19,240 encounter with anything other things 868 00:39:24,690 --> 00:39:21,390 I've seen before were nocturnal lights 869 00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:24,700 which some of which I think may have 870 00:39:28,410 --> 00:39:26,650 been within maybe a quarter mile of me 871 00:39:30,780 --> 00:39:28,420 but maybe I don't 872 00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:30,790 it's hard to it's impossible to gauge 873 00:39:35,940 --> 00:39:33,490 distance really in many six six senses 874 00:39:39,870 --> 00:39:35,950 just seemed like it were close 875 00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:39,880 and but others were much more distant 876 00:39:46,650 --> 00:39:41,530 and I've seen a couple of their weird 877 00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:46,660 things that might be explainable as 878 00:39:54,750 --> 00:39:51,490 unusual aircraft or weather phenomena 879 00:39:58,620 --> 00:39:54,760 but that was definitely something that 880 00:40:01,830 --> 00:39:58,630 should not have been there was flying it 881 00:40:04,830 --> 00:40:01,840 was not an airplane was not not not a 882 00:40:07,590 --> 00:40:04,840 little drone craft it was big and was 883 00:40:14,070 --> 00:40:07,600 black and it it was not aerodynamic 884 00:40:15,390 --> 00:40:14,080 looking and and so I kept bugged me and 885 00:40:17,010 --> 00:40:15,400 bugged me it still bugs me I still think 886 00:40:18,540 --> 00:40:17,020 about it all the time you know and and 887 00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:18,550 now I worry that my memory is fading and 888 00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:19,810 I'm starting to get the details wrong 889 00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:21,850 yeah and the story I'm telling you may 890 00:40:26,240 --> 00:40:23,530 not be exactly the same story that I 891 00:40:29,270 --> 00:40:26,250 would have told you ten years ago but 892 00:40:31,340 --> 00:40:29,280 I get that because I the one sighting I 893 00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:31,350 had that I know was a you know a 894 00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:32,610 sighting 895 00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:35,130 I worry about that too you know like 896 00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:37,050 remembering it exactly right 897 00:40:47,810 --> 00:40:44,370 did you do anything after no and until I 898 00:40:51,290 --> 00:40:47,820 was contacted a few years later and I 899 00:40:54,110 --> 00:40:51,300 said well I can make amends for my my 900 00:40:58,190 --> 00:40:54,120 very poor documentation of this sighting 901 00:40:59,300 --> 00:40:58,200 by helping figuring out how to documents 902 00:41:02,000 --> 00:40:59,310 on it correctly that helping other 903 00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:02,010 people do it and that was one of my 904 00:41:09,670 --> 00:41:07,170 motivations for joining API and I think 905 00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:09,680 we are doing a better job at that now of 906 00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:11,490 communicating the public although we 907 00:41:19,010 --> 00:41:14,010 have a long way to go what to do when 908 00:41:25,060 --> 00:41:19,020 you see UFO and in order that your 909 00:41:27,770 --> 00:41:25,070 sighting will be properly recorded and 910 00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:27,780 and again like I said the first thing 911 00:41:33,250 --> 00:41:29,370 shooters make a sketch second thing to 912 00:41:35,930 --> 00:41:33,260 do write down all the details place time 913 00:41:37,700 --> 00:41:35,940 locations colored you know whatever 914 00:41:43,820 --> 00:41:37,710 whatever the details are important to 915 00:41:45,650 --> 00:41:43,830 you and so you know that what that's one 916 00:41:49,340 --> 00:41:45,660 thing that part one of my missions is to 917 00:41:50,780 --> 00:41:49,350 really educate the public about first of 918 00:41:53,780 --> 00:41:50,790 all about things that flying around that 919 00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:53,790 are not UFOs like the International 920 00:42:02,750 --> 00:41:56,970 Space Station or the planet Venus we get 921 00:42:04,190 --> 00:42:02,760 that a lot balloons all those things we 922 00:42:06,860 --> 00:42:04,200 want the public to know about that so 923 00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:06,870 they can you know they can say oh I know 924 00:42:15,410 --> 00:42:10,770 what that is rather than you know get 925 00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:15,420 getting calling us up say we are not 926 00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:18,330 alone I saw this light in the sky yeah 927 00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:20,370 yeah when somebody says that I usually 928 00:42:25,970 --> 00:42:22,530 said I know I know we're not alone I 929 00:42:28,490 --> 00:42:25,980 usually okay yeah they probably saw they 930 00:42:31,910 --> 00:42:28,500 probably saw that b-2 bomber you know or 931 00:42:33,950 --> 00:42:31,920 something yeah like that but I think 932 00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:33,960 also that you know to be fair a lot of 933 00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:35,490 times people don't know how to react to 934 00:42:39,099 --> 00:42:37,770 something like that and it kind of 935 00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:39,109 changes the 936 00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:43,729 thoughts and paradigm but I I do want to 937 00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:46,249 say the the the one thing you mentioned 938 00:42:51,279 --> 00:42:48,410 about drawing the drawing first 939 00:42:53,349 --> 00:42:51,289 I had class Swan from Sweden on this 940 00:42:54,999 --> 00:42:53,359 show and he was telling me about him and 941 00:42:57,969 --> 00:42:55,009 his wife having a sighting and he 942 00:42:59,319 --> 00:42:57,979 actually said to her don't talk and they 943 00:43:01,809 --> 00:42:59,329 both went into separate rooms and 944 00:43:03,370 --> 00:43:01,819 immediately made a drawing and I think 945 00:43:04,059 --> 00:43:03,380 that's exactly the right thing yeah 946 00:43:09,519 --> 00:43:04,069 exactly 947 00:43:11,289 --> 00:43:09,529 yes you should if if the other witnesses 948 00:43:13,779 --> 00:43:11,299 are not people you know get their 949 00:43:15,579 --> 00:43:13,789 contact information but don't talk to 950 00:43:17,410 --> 00:43:15,589 them about what you've just seen mmm 951 00:43:19,809 --> 00:43:17,420 that's very hard that must be very hard 952 00:43:21,910 --> 00:43:19,819 I mean you could say you could say 953 00:43:25,059 --> 00:43:21,920 something like I can't believe that yeah 954 00:43:25,359 --> 00:43:25,069 but I just saw you know here's my phone 955 00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:25,369 number 956 00:43:29,709 --> 00:43:27,410 here's you know or you know or you know 957 00:43:31,769 --> 00:43:29,719 just everybody everybody gotta get to 958 00:43:34,299 --> 00:43:31,779 report a UFO no RG as soon as you can 959 00:43:37,569 --> 00:43:34,309 with with your sketch but don't snot 960 00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:37,579 talk about it because yes your memory 961 00:43:43,059 --> 00:43:40,249 your memories are affected by what other 962 00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:43,069 people's impressions were yes yeah and 963 00:43:49,259 --> 00:43:44,930 there's memories about that 964 00:43:53,799 --> 00:43:49,269 yeah memory is a delicate thing hmm and 965 00:43:54,279 --> 00:43:53,809 human memory is not you know a recording 966 00:43:57,160 --> 00:43:54,289 device 967 00:43:58,719 --> 00:43:57,170 yeah it's various parts of our brains 968 00:44:01,269 --> 00:43:58,729 registering things that seem to be 969 00:44:03,370 --> 00:44:01,279 associated and then we try to put in our 970 00:44:05,559 --> 00:44:03,380 brains are extremely good at sort of 971 00:44:07,420 --> 00:44:05,569 reintegrating those into memories but 972 00:44:11,410 --> 00:44:07,430 there's no guarantee that those will be 973 00:44:13,539 --> 00:44:11,420 accurate memories so the best thing to 974 00:44:16,989 --> 00:44:13,549 do is make your sketch write down all 975 00:44:21,839 --> 00:44:16,999 the details you can do this in two 976 00:44:27,039 --> 00:44:24,370 anything else that needs to be 977 00:44:29,109 --> 00:44:27,049 researched we can do that for you or we 978 00:44:30,969 --> 00:44:29,119 can help you help you do it you know we 979 00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:30,979 can find out what planes were in the 980 00:44:35,439 --> 00:44:33,890 area or you know if the Space Station 981 00:44:36,999 --> 00:44:35,449 was flying over that sort of thing so 982 00:44:39,279 --> 00:44:37,009 all you need to do is write down what 983 00:44:42,519 --> 00:44:39,289 you or your impressions were just let's 984 00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:42,529 go over that right now if we can so for 985 00:44:47,769 --> 00:44:45,170 some ideas first of all the sketch time 986 00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:47,779 date weather conditions stuff like that 987 00:44:50,709 --> 00:44:49,249 well yeah even the weather conditions 988 00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:50,719 that we can you know we can reproduce 989 00:44:57,529 --> 00:44:52,650 that from time until official 990 00:45:01,059 --> 00:44:57,539 kurz yeah mmm time and date and location 991 00:45:03,140 --> 00:45:01,069 if there's and it may you might just be 992 00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:03,150 you might know where you were you might 993 00:45:07,789 --> 00:45:05,010 not know that well where you were if you 994 00:45:10,250 --> 00:45:07,799 were on the highway if you've got a GPS 995 00:45:14,569 --> 00:45:10,260 receiver on your phone just take a 996 00:45:17,059 --> 00:45:14,579 screen snap of your of your location 997 00:45:20,599 --> 00:45:17,069 using many of the many apps many apps 998 00:45:23,750 --> 00:45:20,609 aren't available or if you have a lot of 999 00:45:26,089 --> 00:45:23,760 people like me I recycling I use a an 1000 00:45:32,079 --> 00:45:26,099 app that just tracks where I am mm-hmm 1001 00:45:34,039 --> 00:45:32,089 just turn that on you know and the the 1002 00:45:36,650 --> 00:45:34,049 direction you were looking at it's 1003 00:45:41,690 --> 00:45:36,660 important somewhat this is actually get 1004 00:45:44,870 --> 00:45:41,700 that wrong and of course if you if you 1005 00:45:48,620 --> 00:45:44,880 had photos or videos don't mess with 1006 00:45:50,900 --> 00:45:48,630 them save them off somewhere safe 1007 00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:50,910 now then then you can take a copy and 1008 00:45:56,180 --> 00:45:53,970 mess with them all you want but make 1009 00:45:59,000 --> 00:45:56,190 sure there's a safe on a molested copy 1010 00:46:02,779 --> 00:45:59,010 that hasn't touched any software and 1011 00:46:04,670 --> 00:46:02,789 also if you are taking a video or 1012 00:46:08,059 --> 00:46:04,680 something with your phone particularly 1013 00:46:10,519 --> 00:46:08,069 don't zoom oh really well do that 1014 00:46:12,799 --> 00:46:10,529 afterwards no you just never soon 1015 00:46:16,069 --> 00:46:12,809 well like I can zoom yeah I can you know 1016 00:46:18,500 --> 00:46:16,079 I can digitally zoom if cellphones well 1017 00:46:20,240 --> 00:46:18,510 this is changing now but cell phones do 1018 00:46:22,970 --> 00:46:20,250 not have optical zoom 1019 00:46:24,700 --> 00:46:22,980 they have only digital zoom as you know 1020 00:46:26,839 --> 00:46:24,710 you can pin it you can pinch and yeah 1021 00:46:29,589 --> 00:46:26,849 but you're not really zooming you're 1022 00:46:33,769 --> 00:46:29,599 just using a smaller part of the image 1023 00:46:36,710 --> 00:46:33,779 so and now some phones cell phones are 1024 00:46:37,849 --> 00:46:36,720 going to get optical zoom soon but even 1025 00:46:42,890 --> 00:46:37,859 if you have opticals maybe if you have a 1026 00:46:44,240 --> 00:46:42,900 really good camera and I carry a 1027 00:46:45,769 --> 00:46:44,250 mediocre camera with me everywhere 1028 00:46:50,510 --> 00:46:45,779 better than a cell phone but not as good 1029 00:46:52,190 --> 00:46:50,520 as my best camera but the don't zoom too 1030 00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:52,200 much and there's two reasons for that 1031 00:46:56,870 --> 00:46:54,690 one is autofocus which you're probably 1032 00:47:00,490 --> 00:46:56,880 using autofocus which there are a few 1033 00:47:03,380 --> 00:47:00,500 people are yeah our manual focus people 1034 00:47:05,720 --> 00:47:03,390 it's going to fail the more you zoom in 1035 00:47:06,850 --> 00:47:05,730 the more likely you're just going to get 1036 00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:06,860 a fuzzy blob 1037 00:47:12,340 --> 00:47:10,170 and second the most important thing is 1038 00:47:15,260 --> 00:47:12,350 you'll lose all your reference objects 1039 00:47:18,410 --> 00:47:15,270 you need you need to know what the 1040 00:47:20,990 --> 00:47:18,420 object is behind what's in front of what 1041 00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:21,000 what relative size it is and reference 1042 00:47:24,620 --> 00:47:22,530 object can be anything it could be a 1043 00:47:25,910 --> 00:47:24,630 tree it could be a water tower it can be 1044 00:47:29,630 --> 00:47:25,920 the moon to the moon it's the best 1045 00:47:33,710 --> 00:47:29,640 reference object ever if it happens to 1046 00:47:36,830 --> 00:47:33,720 be visible in that direction a building 1047 00:47:40,580 --> 00:47:36,840 church steeple anything because we can 1048 00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:40,590 figure out later on how high the tree 1049 00:47:45,170 --> 00:47:42,810 was how I'd hide the church steeple was 1050 00:47:47,270 --> 00:47:45,180 I mean call the church that's the 1051 00:47:53,390 --> 00:47:47,280 Mahathir steeple is you know we can 1052 00:47:55,010 --> 00:47:53,400 there's a and we can we can get a use 1053 00:47:56,480 --> 00:47:55,020 that information to how fast the objects 1054 00:47:59,450 --> 00:47:56,490 moving which is more important than what 1055 00:48:02,180 --> 00:47:59,460 actually looks like and how it you know 1056 00:48:07,820 --> 00:48:02,190 it's moving in some anomalous way of 1057 00:48:12,050 --> 00:48:07,830 light and so don't zoom and if you zoom 1058 00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:12,060 just zoom a little to get some of the 1059 00:48:15,650 --> 00:48:13,530 some of the if you have an optical zoom 1060 00:48:17,180 --> 00:48:15,660 just to get something maybe the light 1061 00:48:18,710 --> 00:48:17,190 interference out of the frame if you 1062 00:48:22,220 --> 00:48:18,720 have bright light or something oh I see 1063 00:48:24,140 --> 00:48:22,230 the Sun if the sun's over there but only 1064 00:48:29,720 --> 00:48:24,150 if you have a real camera there with a 1065 00:48:32,870 --> 00:48:29,730 for the lens that can zoom and that that 1066 00:48:34,850 --> 00:48:32,880 is so crucial to getting good photo 1067 00:48:36,350 --> 00:48:34,860 evidence and one of the reasons we don't 1068 00:48:41,540 --> 00:48:36,360 have very much good photo evidence this 1069 00:48:43,340 --> 00:48:41,550 is the cameras and cameras and cell 1070 00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:43,350 phones have improved a lot but they're 1071 00:48:48,500 --> 00:48:45,330 still not very good and there tend to be 1072 00:48:50,300 --> 00:48:48,510 very wide angle lens there were close 1073 00:48:51,980 --> 00:48:50,310 like really close pictures of like your 1074 00:48:53,780 --> 00:48:51,990 friends or yourself for selfies and 1075 00:48:55,220 --> 00:48:53,790 stuff like that they're optimized for 1076 00:48:58,340 --> 00:48:55,230 selfies yeah but when it comes to 1077 00:48:59,780 --> 00:48:58,350 actually things that distance like for 1078 00:49:01,670 --> 00:48:59,790 instance when I was living on my 1079 00:49:03,950 --> 00:49:01,680 mountaintop I try to take these nice 1080 00:49:05,270 --> 00:49:03,960 pant I had these beautiful panoramic 1081 00:49:08,140 --> 00:49:05,280 views and I try to take a picture of and 1082 00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:08,150 it looked flat and look like nothing 1083 00:49:13,460 --> 00:49:12,330 even the thing is if don't don't go out 1084 00:49:17,990 --> 00:49:13,470 buy an expensive camera because you 1085 00:49:19,130 --> 00:49:18,000 might see UFO because the reality out 1086 00:49:20,300 --> 00:49:19,140 there there are some good mid-range 1087 00:49:21,170 --> 00:49:20,310 cameras that are really 1088 00:49:23,660 --> 00:49:21,180 really good that you might want to 1089 00:49:28,090 --> 00:49:23,670 consider they keep getting better every 1090 00:49:30,170 --> 00:49:28,100 year but the if you have a really good 1091 00:49:31,670 --> 00:49:30,180 high-end camera you better spend some 1092 00:49:34,100 --> 00:49:31,680 time learning how to use it or you won't 1093 00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:34,110 get good results yes and get good lenses 1094 00:49:37,790 --> 00:49:36,570 and you know don't just go to the camera 1095 00:49:40,250 --> 00:49:37,800 store and say what can I get for five 1096 00:49:41,990 --> 00:49:40,260 thousand dollars because believe me they 1097 00:49:45,740 --> 00:49:42,000 will load you up yeah well not hesitate 1098 00:49:48,230 --> 00:49:45,750 hmm well you will what you will get is 1099 00:49:49,730 --> 00:49:48,240 something that's complicated and if 1100 00:49:51,860 --> 00:49:49,740 you're not willing to spend putting the 1101 00:49:55,820 --> 00:49:51,870 time learning how to to use it you'll 1102 00:49:58,430 --> 00:49:55,830 get even worse results though but so if 1103 00:50:02,240 --> 00:49:58,440 you if you have been an everyday carry 1104 00:50:05,750 --> 00:50:02,250 camera that that is better than a cell 1105 00:50:08,420 --> 00:50:05,760 phone get a point-and-shoot MA and there 1106 00:50:11,420 --> 00:50:08,430 are some really good ones made by the 1107 00:50:13,010 --> 00:50:11,430 top manufacturers that are and you could 1108 00:50:15,650 --> 00:50:13,020 buy a used one very inexpensively 1109 00:50:19,100 --> 00:50:15,660 sometimes you know I mentioned this 1110 00:50:22,790 --> 00:50:19,110 before I was in the Boston Common and 1111 00:50:25,460 --> 00:50:22,800 walking with my son and a blimp was 1112 00:50:28,130 --> 00:50:25,470 going over like over the trees and you 1113 00:50:29,720 --> 00:50:28,140 would think and I just wanted to take a 1114 00:50:32,180 --> 00:50:29,730 picture of it and you'd think that I 1115 00:50:35,150 --> 00:50:32,190 could reach in my pocket get my cell 1116 00:50:37,550 --> 00:50:35,160 phone out get the camera out and take a 1117 00:50:40,100 --> 00:50:37,560 picture the blimp is slow as it was 1118 00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:40,110 moving I didn't have time to take the 1119 00:50:45,290 --> 00:50:42,810 picture so I couldn't understand why you 1120 00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:45,300 know because a lot of skeptics will say 1121 00:50:49,220 --> 00:50:47,610 hey you know there's so many cameras out 1122 00:50:50,570 --> 00:50:49,230 there in everyone's pocket right now why 1123 00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:50,580 aren't we getting really good UFO 1124 00:50:55,100 --> 00:50:53,850 pictures and I think part of that is you 1125 00:50:57,320 --> 00:50:55,110 know first of all you got to think about 1126 00:50:58,610 --> 00:50:57,330 your you're looking at something that 1127 00:51:01,070 --> 00:50:58,620 doesn't make any sense 1128 00:51:02,390 --> 00:51:01,080 next you want to oh you're gonna grab 1129 00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:02,400 your camera and then you got to open the 1130 00:51:06,860 --> 00:51:04,290 camera app and by the time you get it 1131 00:51:10,190 --> 00:51:06,870 you know I mean a slow-moving blimp got 1132 00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:10,200 away from me I can imagine a UFO unless 1133 00:51:14,540 --> 00:51:12,290 it's hovering or doing something unusual 1134 00:51:17,420 --> 00:51:14,550 it would kind of an escape a camera 1135 00:51:18,740 --> 00:51:17,430 right well I we have a lot of we always 1136 00:51:20,690 --> 00:51:18,750 ask a witness why do you take a picture 1137 00:51:22,430 --> 00:51:20,700 mm-hmm and we got a lot of different 1138 00:51:24,890 --> 00:51:22,440 answers I mean they don't even take the 1139 00:51:26,390 --> 00:51:24,900 picture I mean when they swen they see 1140 00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:26,400 they they don't even get their camera 1141 00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:29,370 out in a lot of cases a lot of times 1142 00:51:34,250 --> 00:51:33,090 it's fear they're so afraid that they 1143 00:51:36,140 --> 00:51:34,260 can't be calm enough to 1144 00:51:38,060 --> 00:51:36,150 operate a camera or operate their cell 1145 00:51:39,890 --> 00:51:38,070 phone and the other other times it's 1146 00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:39,900 just I never thought to do that yeah I 1147 00:51:44,420 --> 00:51:42,330 get that totally because some with my 1148 00:51:47,270 --> 00:51:44,430 sighting I didn't have a camera handy 1149 00:51:48,530 --> 00:51:47,280 but still I would have I don't I really 1150 00:51:51,050 --> 00:51:48,540 don't think I would have ever thought of 1151 00:51:53,300 --> 00:51:51,060 taking a picture and my closest 1152 00:51:56,240 --> 00:51:53,310 encounter I my camera was a hundred feet 1153 00:51:57,920 --> 00:51:56,250 away and that was not gonna go get it 1154 00:51:59,270 --> 00:51:57,930 yeah because I would I was afraid of 1155 00:52:05,109 --> 00:51:59,280 losing sight of it that's right though 1156 00:52:06,830 --> 00:52:05,119 yeah but now I these days I have a 1157 00:52:10,820 --> 00:52:06,840 point-and-shoot that I carry with me 1158 00:52:15,859 --> 00:52:10,830 everywhere that has 4x optical optical 1159 00:52:18,890 --> 00:52:15,869 zoom which is good enough and it's uh 1160 00:52:20,810 --> 00:52:18,900 it's also it's got a GPS receiver built 1161 00:52:21,890 --> 00:52:20,820 into it so really well that's nice 1162 00:52:23,690 --> 00:52:21,900 I'll know where I where I was standing 1163 00:52:26,630 --> 00:52:23,700 when I took the picture no matter what 1164 00:52:28,730 --> 00:52:26,640 yeah and I found it you know 1165 00:52:30,890 --> 00:52:28,740 today just today on the way home I saw a 1166 00:52:37,370 --> 00:52:30,900 helicopter why over and we get a lot of 1167 00:52:38,690 --> 00:52:37,380 helicopters in that area and I I thought 1168 00:52:40,790 --> 00:52:38,700 what if I get a picture I grabbed my 1169 00:52:42,830 --> 00:52:40,800 camera turned it on it turns on almost 1170 00:52:49,609 --> 00:52:42,840 instantly turns on like us in a second 1171 00:52:52,150 --> 00:52:49,619 and it was gone yeah yeah I it took me 5 1172 00:52:56,540 --> 00:52:52,160 seconds maybe to get ready to shoot and 1173 00:52:59,900 --> 00:52:56,550 the chopper was gone and so I actually 1174 00:53:02,349 --> 00:52:59,910 practiced that I when I see an 1175 00:53:06,500 --> 00:53:02,359 interesting plane or something I will I 1176 00:53:09,980 --> 00:53:06,510 will try to get a shot just to just to 1177 00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:09,990 prove out and be ready but of course you 1178 00:53:14,030 --> 00:53:12,450 know this happens to a lot of people 1179 00:53:16,190 --> 00:53:14,040 they have a close encounter and they 1180 00:53:17,990 --> 00:53:16,200 never see anything ever again yeah and 1181 00:53:20,990 --> 00:53:18,000 but they're ready they got four doctors 1182 00:53:23,930 --> 00:53:21,000 that got the camera they got I'm like 1183 00:53:28,910 --> 00:53:23,940 that too I'm a total geek when it comes 1184 00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:28,920 to sets up but uh yeah so we try to help 1185 00:53:34,420 --> 00:53:31,050 people be ready but in reality is you're 1186 00:53:36,980 --> 00:53:34,430 probably just gonna have your eyes and 1187 00:53:38,450 --> 00:53:36,990 your brain that's a bit that's probably 1188 00:53:42,530 --> 00:53:38,460 the equipment you're gonna have you know 1189 00:53:46,900 --> 00:53:42,540 and I have seen we did get one 1190 00:53:51,099 --> 00:53:46,910 photograph once which is on our website 1191 00:53:54,700 --> 00:53:51,109 at report a UFO RG go to that website 1192 00:53:59,769 --> 00:53:54,710 and I ought to send you a link it is not 1193 00:54:03,430 --> 00:53:59,779 look very impressive mmm it but there 1194 00:54:04,950 --> 00:54:03,440 are foreground objects there's clouds in 1195 00:54:08,109 --> 00:54:04,960 the background 1196 00:54:09,759 --> 00:54:08,119 it's an overcast day so and we can look 1197 00:54:13,829 --> 00:54:09,769 up and see what the ceiling cloud 1198 00:54:19,180 --> 00:54:13,839 ceiling was in the weather archives and 1199 00:54:21,609 --> 00:54:19,190 you have this thing and the witness said 1200 00:54:22,509 --> 00:54:21,619 he saw it just right below the clouds it 1201 00:54:24,190 --> 00:54:22,519 looked like it was right below the 1202 00:54:25,329 --> 00:54:24,200 clouds fuse and since we don't hide the 1203 00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:25,339 clouds where we can figure out how it 1204 00:54:32,130 --> 00:54:28,970 was our and estimate how far away was 1205 00:54:36,700 --> 00:54:32,140 turns out it was very far away it was 1206 00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:36,710 miles away and because we know exactly 1207 00:54:44,309 --> 00:54:40,490 where he was standing and we know where 1208 00:54:49,299 --> 00:54:44,319 the houses are relative to him we can 1209 00:54:51,630 --> 00:54:49,309 measure quite accurately this the 1210 00:54:53,710 --> 00:54:51,640 angular size of the object and then by 1211 00:54:55,240 --> 00:54:53,720 estimating is this is we can get a 1212 00:54:57,730 --> 00:54:55,250 roughly how big it was about a hundred 1213 00:55:01,299 --> 00:54:57,740 meters Wow Wow 1214 00:55:04,150 --> 00:55:01,309 that is uh yeah about 300 about the size 1215 00:55:09,519 --> 00:55:04,160 of a size of a soccer pitch yeah yeah 1216 00:55:11,349 --> 00:55:09,529 yeah and and the now that's a rough 1217 00:55:13,359 --> 00:55:11,359 estimate it could be a little smaller or 1218 00:55:16,150 --> 00:55:13,369 a lot bigger depending how far away it 1219 00:55:17,970 --> 00:55:16,160 really is but since we know it wasn't 1220 00:55:21,370 --> 00:55:17,980 above the clouds we know how IO 1221 00:55:22,809 --> 00:55:21,380 the maximum height that it was and if it 1222 00:55:23,769 --> 00:55:22,819 was actually below more below the clouds 1223 00:55:30,069 --> 00:55:23,779 that means it might have been further 1224 00:55:32,440 --> 00:55:30,079 away so the from that from that little 1225 00:55:35,769 --> 00:55:32,450 photograph the little with it was sent 1226 00:55:40,690 --> 00:55:35,779 shot with the samsung galaxy 6 a very 1227 00:55:42,759 --> 00:55:40,700 ordinary sort of cell phone yeah and it 1228 00:55:44,620 --> 00:55:42,769 was a I think with the best see awful 1229 00:55:46,390 --> 00:55:44,630 photographs who ever seen Wow how about 1230 00:55:49,420 --> 00:55:46,400 that yeah I know it wasn't fake and I 1231 00:55:50,740 --> 00:55:49,430 know you took it and I know I got it 1232 00:55:57,519 --> 00:55:50,750 straight from him so the chain of 1233 00:55:59,750 --> 00:55:57,529 custody is established and it was we had 1234 00:56:02,620 --> 00:55:59,760 a long conversation with a guy 1235 00:56:06,950 --> 00:56:02,630 he saw it his granddaughter saw it and 1236 00:56:09,230 --> 00:56:06,960 so there was a you know that that's the 1237 00:56:10,220 --> 00:56:09,240 sort of thing where you know yeah you 1238 00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:10,230 look at it you go that's just little 1239 00:56:16,760 --> 00:56:14,450 flack up it's like 30 pixels wide but 1240 00:56:18,560 --> 00:56:16,770 that third of those 30 pixels are 1241 00:56:20,510 --> 00:56:18,570 critical and for me have critical 1242 00:56:22,190 --> 00:56:20,520 information in them yeah yeah and I've 1243 00:56:26,450 --> 00:56:22,200 got also there's something like three or 1244 00:56:29,960 --> 00:56:26,460 four photographs so there's this is not 1245 00:56:32,120 --> 00:56:29,970 a hoax this is not it's not a lens flare 1246 00:56:33,170 --> 00:56:32,130 I've had that argument before yeah I 1247 00:56:34,550 --> 00:56:33,180 know what although this fair looks I've 1248 00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:34,560 seen a lot of lens flares this is one 1249 00:56:44,870 --> 00:56:39,810 one and it's uh and that caught that 1250 00:56:46,790 --> 00:56:44,880 kind of evidence was fed now you know 1251 00:56:51,109 --> 00:56:46,800 that part that part of northern Maryland 1252 00:56:53,900 --> 00:56:51,119 has had lots of odd things being seen in 1253 00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:53,910 the sky there's a lot of government 1254 00:56:56,900 --> 00:56:55,530 activity up there but I none of its 1255 00:57:00,650 --> 00:56:56,910 really like aerospace development 1256 00:57:02,570 --> 00:57:00,660 activity it's you know you know Camp 1257 00:57:04,130 --> 00:57:02,580 David Camp David is in the area that 1258 00:57:05,870 --> 00:57:04,140 sort of thing you know let's let's end 1259 00:57:07,460 --> 00:57:05,880 it there we got to go to break and when 1260 00:57:10,700 --> 00:57:07,470 we come back I'd actually like to talk 1261 00:57:13,790 --> 00:57:10,710 to you a little bit about this study of 1262 00:57:15,590 --> 00:57:13,800 UFOs and your career so hang in everyone 1263 00:57:19,700 --> 00:57:15,600 we're gonna be back in just a few 1264 00:57:21,950 --> 00:57:19,710 minutes right after these messages on 1265 00:57:24,500 --> 00:57:21,960 YouTube we'll be back in about four 1266 00:57:28,099 --> 00:57:24,510 minutes a right welcome back this is 1267 00:57:33,760 --> 00:57:28,109 Martin Willis and my guest this evening 1268 00:57:37,310 --> 00:57:33,770 is Paul Carr and we are talking UFOs and 1269 00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:37,320 reporting UFOs and all that now right 1270 00:57:44,750 --> 00:57:41,210 before the break you were discussing 1271 00:57:46,099 --> 00:57:44,760 basically how one would report a UFO and 1272 00:57:50,540 --> 00:57:46,109 right now I just want to ask you about 1273 00:57:53,570 --> 00:57:50,550 your career in space you know the our 1274 00:57:56,720 --> 00:57:53,580 engineer position and all that and how 1275 00:58:00,859 --> 00:57:56,730 does that fit with this with this little 1276 00:58:03,470 --> 00:58:00,869 sideline that you're doing well there is 1277 00:58:05,050 --> 00:58:03,480 a wall of separation a firewall between 1278 00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:05,060 the two things 1279 00:58:14,940 --> 00:58:09,930 and it's I'm sorry that that's necessary 1280 00:58:18,190 --> 00:58:14,950 it really shouldn't be but it 1281 00:58:19,930 --> 00:58:18,200 it's if you if you want to be taken 1282 00:58:24,190 --> 00:58:19,940 seriously in the professional world 1283 00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:24,200 you can't talk about UFOs very much even 1284 00:58:31,599 --> 00:58:27,410 though I have something of repetition as 1285 00:58:35,789 --> 00:58:31,609 a skeptic and I have we've debunked 1286 00:58:37,809 --> 00:58:35,799 hoaxes we have solved a lot of cases I 1287 00:58:40,839 --> 00:58:37,819 think we've helped a lot of people 1288 00:58:43,089 --> 00:58:40,849 understand what happened to them so you 1289 00:58:47,109 --> 00:58:43,099 know and I do not go around saying the 1290 00:58:49,599 --> 00:58:47,119 aliens are here or and I'm very critical 1291 00:58:58,239 --> 00:58:49,609 of PEEP some people some of the schools 1292 00:58:59,559 --> 00:58:58,249 of thought surrounding that but I not 1293 00:59:03,489 --> 00:58:59,569 that I know that I think alien life 1294 00:59:05,950 --> 00:59:03,499 doesn't exist or might not even be here 1295 00:59:07,870 --> 00:59:05,960 I think that's and interestingly enough 1296 00:59:09,219 --> 00:59:07,880 there have been that the new generation 1297 00:59:12,849 --> 00:59:09,229 of scientists that are now starting to 1298 00:59:16,059 --> 00:59:12,859 move into feels like astronomy and the 1299 00:59:19,440 --> 00:59:16,069 new field of astrobiology are starting 1300 00:59:22,589 --> 00:59:19,450 to take that a little more seriously hmm 1301 00:59:26,440 --> 00:59:22,599 but their standards of evidence are 1302 00:59:30,400 --> 00:59:26,450 necessarily very high they are not going 1303 00:59:35,769 --> 00:59:30,410 to be persuaded by anything that isn't 1304 00:59:37,359 --> 00:59:35,779 just rock and but you know back when 1305 00:59:41,620 --> 00:59:37,369 Carl Sagan first coined the term 1306 00:59:43,529 --> 00:59:41,630 exobiology he got a lot of negativity 1307 00:59:45,969 --> 00:59:43,539 for that from the scientific community 1308 00:59:48,579 --> 00:59:45,979 if what are you talking about life on 1309 00:59:50,950 --> 00:59:48,589 her planets for you know that's not what 1310 00:59:54,309 --> 00:59:50,960 real scientists do we have no evidence 1311 00:59:54,759 --> 00:59:54,319 of that no let's move on he stuck to his 1312 00:59:56,170 --> 00:59:54,769 guns 1313 00:59:58,299 --> 00:59:56,180 he called it XL biology it's now called 1314 01:00:00,009 --> 00:59:58,309 astrobiology and there's some very 1315 01:00:03,069 --> 01:00:00,019 serious very talented young people 1316 01:00:04,239 --> 01:00:03,079 working in that field now none of them 1317 01:00:07,299 --> 01:00:04,249 are making any 1318 01:00:09,759 --> 01:00:07,309 extravagant claims mmm they are they are 1319 01:00:12,160 --> 01:00:09,769 studying the problems very hard about 1320 01:00:15,430 --> 01:00:12,170 how life could originate and evolve on 1321 01:00:16,959 --> 01:00:15,440 other worlds and they're mostly focused 1322 01:00:19,239 --> 01:00:16,969 on life as originated evolved on this 1323 01:00:21,640 --> 01:00:19,249 world and then try to project that out 1324 01:00:23,240 --> 01:00:21,650 and they look at Mars they look at Titan 1325 01:00:26,120 --> 01:00:23,250 they look at other 1326 01:00:28,760 --> 01:00:26,130 possible habitable locations they look 1327 01:00:35,300 --> 01:00:28,770 at exoplanets it's real serious science 1328 01:00:37,820 --> 01:00:35,310 and that's a good example to us you know 1329 01:00:39,650 --> 01:00:37,830 but I also I think that you even have 1330 01:00:41,540 --> 01:00:39,660 real scientists like Jason right start 1331 01:00:43,280 --> 01:00:41,550 to talk about there may have been an 1332 01:00:44,420 --> 01:00:43,290 advanced civilization this solar system 1333 01:00:47,870 --> 01:00:44,430 a long time ago 1334 01:00:49,850 --> 01:00:47,880 mmm-hmm how do we look for evidence of 1335 01:00:52,370 --> 01:00:49,860 that what what would how would we know 1336 01:00:54,950 --> 01:00:52,380 if we saw something that was a that was 1337 01:00:58,250 --> 01:00:54,960 an artifact of this very distant 1338 01:01:01,190 --> 01:00:58,260 civilization those are serious questions 1339 01:01:02,240 --> 01:01:01,200 that are being raised no one is claiming 1340 01:01:05,170 --> 01:01:02,250 that they have anything like that 1341 01:01:09,920 --> 01:01:05,180 they're just saying how do we know that 1342 01:01:11,930 --> 01:01:09,930 and so it's a little more serious than 1343 01:01:15,410 --> 01:01:11,940 it used to be it's not quite as much 1344 01:01:18,290 --> 01:01:15,420 ridicule from that direction 1345 01:01:21,560 --> 01:01:18,300 but I still think there are a lot of 1346 01:01:23,780 --> 01:01:21,570 people see the you know they see things 1347 01:01:26,690 --> 01:01:23,790 well I don't have to list the number of 1348 01:01:30,830 --> 01:01:26,700 cases that that have brought ridicule 1349 01:01:32,720 --> 01:01:30,840 upon the community and I'm sure you've 1350 01:01:39,230 --> 01:01:32,730 been over them and over them yourself 1351 01:01:41,360 --> 01:01:39,240 many times these things are they 1352 01:01:43,630 --> 01:01:41,370 we the UFO community has done as much to 1353 01:01:48,620 --> 01:01:43,640 bring the laughter curtain down as any 1354 01:01:50,330 --> 01:01:48,630 anyone you know else and and we have to 1355 01:01:54,350 --> 01:01:50,340 recognize sometimes as skeptics are 1356 01:01:56,570 --> 01:01:54,360 right about some cases and not always I 1357 01:01:57,710 --> 01:01:56,580 think I've definitely one case in my 1358 01:02:05,150 --> 01:01:57,720 mind that I think the skeptics were 1359 01:02:09,290 --> 01:02:05,160 wrong but the there are there are good 1360 01:02:13,400 --> 01:02:09,300 there are good examples that of how not 1361 01:02:16,220 --> 01:02:13,410 to bring study of UFOs into respectable 1362 01:02:20,510 --> 01:02:16,230 light and like I said I don't think we 1363 01:02:23,180 --> 01:02:20,520 really have science yet we have what I 1364 01:02:27,020 --> 01:02:23,190 would call proto science which is we're 1365 01:02:31,430 --> 01:02:27,030 try we are we are with UFOs where our 1366 01:02:33,770 --> 01:02:31,440 ancestors were with electromagnetism 300 1367 01:02:36,440 --> 01:02:33,780 years ago well didn't really understand 1368 01:02:38,359 --> 01:02:36,450 it very well right didn't 1369 01:02:41,900 --> 01:02:38,369 a lot of wrong ideas about what it was 1370 01:02:44,660 --> 01:02:41,910 and didn't really even how to study it 1371 01:02:48,370 --> 01:02:44,670 but they kept at it and they eventually 1372 01:02:54,440 --> 01:02:48,380 got to a very sophisticated theory and 1373 01:02:58,970 --> 01:02:54,450 very correct theory and that you know it 1374 01:03:03,740 --> 01:02:58,980 took several generations of just keeping 1375 01:03:10,250 --> 01:03:03,750 at it and that's I think where we are 1376 01:03:12,710 --> 01:03:10,260 now and so when I'm with NASA or Air 1377 01:03:15,770 --> 01:03:12,720 Force people or even commercial 1378 01:03:16,819 --> 01:03:15,780 customers I do not bring up the topic at 1379 01:03:20,390 --> 01:03:16,829 all 1380 01:03:23,120 --> 01:03:20,400 however the skills I have learned in my 1381 01:03:26,390 --> 01:03:23,130 career helped me a lot a lot of times 1382 01:03:28,490 --> 01:03:26,400 with figuring out the answer to some of 1383 01:03:31,640 --> 01:03:28,500 these mysteries or just trying to 1384 01:03:34,970 --> 01:03:31,650 determine the basic facts I'm I'm pretty 1385 01:03:38,450 --> 01:03:34,980 good with sitting down and calculating 1386 01:03:41,450 --> 01:03:38,460 things and figuring out ranges of 1387 01:03:46,819 --> 01:03:41,460 parameters where how far could have been 1388 01:03:49,190 --> 01:03:46,829 how high it could have been and so that 1389 01:03:51,950 --> 01:03:49,200 that has taught me a great deal also you 1390 01:03:56,000 --> 01:03:51,960 know in engineering you learn to look 1391 01:03:59,410 --> 01:03:56,010 for hard facts and you're not interested 1392 01:04:02,270 --> 01:03:59,420 in promises no you're not interested in 1393 01:04:06,260 --> 01:04:02,280 in things that are only exist on paper 1394 01:04:08,839 --> 01:04:06,270 unless there's some real data that says 1395 01:04:12,020 --> 01:04:08,849 that they could be better than that and 1396 01:04:13,579 --> 01:04:12,030 so you tend to we tend to be on The 1397 01:04:18,530 --> 01:04:13,589 Skeptical side of things which I don't 1398 01:04:20,540 --> 01:04:18,540 think does anyone any harm to to say to 1399 01:04:25,750 --> 01:04:20,550 ask hard questions of any claim that 1400 01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:25,760 anyone makes including other skeptics 1401 01:04:32,089 --> 01:04:28,410 yep because the easiest person to fool 1402 01:04:32,800 --> 01:04:32,099 is yourself and that that applies to 1403 01:04:35,089 --> 01:04:32,810 everyone 1404 01:04:40,250 --> 01:04:35,099 yeah there's motivated reasoning 1405 01:04:41,480 --> 01:04:40,260 everywhere you look so so I don't know 1406 01:04:44,870 --> 01:04:41,490 if that's your question or not I mean 1407 01:04:46,520 --> 01:04:44,880 yeah yeah it does up you know I just 1408 01:04:48,770 --> 01:04:46,530 want to say the listening audience we're 1409 01:04:50,180 --> 01:04:48,780 going to take calls in about about 1410 01:04:51,920 --> 01:04:50,190 twenty minutes from now 1411 01:04:53,690 --> 01:04:51,930 but I also wanted to mention that next 1412 01:04:56,570 --> 01:04:53,700 starting next week I'm pretty excited 1413 01:04:58,700 --> 01:04:56,580 about this through kgr a radio they're 1414 01:05:01,010 --> 01:04:58,710 gonna have a phone system set up and 1415 01:05:03,410 --> 01:05:01,020 we're gonna have phone screening and all 1416 01:05:05,870 --> 01:05:03,420 that stuff so calls will be a lot easier 1417 01:05:07,310 --> 01:05:05,880 and that's coming up starting next week 1418 01:05:10,100 --> 01:05:07,320 and I'll give out that phone number at 1419 01:05:12,610 --> 01:05:10,110 that time but just about 20 minutes 1420 01:05:14,900 --> 01:05:12,620 we'll start phone conversations so 1421 01:05:16,910 --> 01:05:14,910 before we move on and talk about some of 1422 01:05:20,870 --> 01:05:16,920 the cases that you've investigated I 1423 01:05:23,570 --> 01:05:20,880 just wanted to ask going back to work 1424 01:05:25,400 --> 01:05:23,580 your work situation have there ever been 1425 01:05:27,050 --> 01:05:25,410 any colleagues that ever brought up the 1426 01:05:28,700 --> 01:05:27,060 subject first or have you ever dared to 1427 01:05:30,920 --> 01:05:28,710 have you ever been close enough to 1428 01:05:35,650 --> 01:05:30,930 actually talk about this subject to any 1429 01:05:41,270 --> 01:05:35,660 of your colleagues I have heard people 1430 01:05:42,950 --> 01:05:41,280 who I'm not close to mention it but it 1431 01:05:47,150 --> 01:05:42,960 has to be in a kind of half joking way 1432 01:05:51,370 --> 01:05:47,160 or you you'll get I mean seriously 1433 01:05:53,960 --> 01:05:51,380 yeah it's we're all kind of afraid to 1434 01:05:55,550 --> 01:05:53,970 broach the subject it's like you know 1435 01:05:59,060 --> 01:05:55,560 sex religion and UFOs you don't talk 1436 01:06:04,550 --> 01:05:59,070 about those things in a professional 1437 01:06:05,690 --> 01:06:04,560 context and you know I said for the same 1438 01:06:09,170 --> 01:06:05,700 reason you know I never ask anybody to 1439 01:06:11,710 --> 01:06:09,180 believe in God you know it I don't want 1440 01:06:16,400 --> 01:06:11,720 to I don't want to stir stir that 1441 01:06:18,320 --> 01:06:16,410 hornet's nest and you know sometimes 1442 01:06:20,690 --> 01:06:18,330 like now you know when you go out for 1443 01:06:23,110 --> 01:06:20,700 beers afterwards sometimes conversations 1444 01:06:25,400 --> 01:06:23,120 were ranged widely but they're still 1445 01:06:33,160 --> 01:06:25,410 even after three or four beers still 1446 01:06:39,220 --> 01:06:33,170 some constraints yeah and so it it can 1447 01:06:45,620 --> 01:06:42,890 and in certain communities if you bring 1448 01:06:47,000 --> 01:06:45,630 up the topic of alien life even just 1449 01:06:51,140 --> 01:06:47,010 alien life knotti 1450 01:06:56,090 --> 01:06:51,150 not even UFOs you don't get I get the 1451 01:06:58,730 --> 01:06:56,100 stink-eye because you know that that's 1452 01:07:02,030 --> 01:06:58,740 just not something we think about 1453 01:07:04,520 --> 01:07:02,040 because if well let's look at it if 1454 01:07:06,470 --> 01:07:04,530 there were highly advanced 1455 01:07:09,770 --> 01:07:06,480 civilization in our solar system 1456 01:07:16,640 --> 01:07:09,780 operating now it screws up a lot of 1457 01:07:18,860 --> 01:07:16,650 people's budgets Wow that they have they 1458 01:07:23,060 --> 01:07:18,870 have a lot going on and they do not want 1459 01:07:24,680 --> 01:07:23,070 to have to think about that and so their 1460 01:07:27,800 --> 01:07:24,690 worldview is said it does it's not an 1461 01:07:29,030 --> 01:07:27,810 issue it doesn't happen and I have been 1462 01:07:31,870 --> 01:07:29,040 there I have been to that in that 1463 01:07:36,230 --> 01:07:31,880 worldview i-i've there was a time when I 1464 01:07:41,780 --> 01:07:36,240 accepted that and and I know how they 1465 01:07:43,720 --> 01:07:41,790 feel and because as soon as you open the 1466 01:07:45,800 --> 01:07:43,730 floodgates it just you know it's 1467 01:07:48,560 --> 01:07:45,810 anything could be you have anything can 1468 01:07:50,360 --> 01:07:48,570 be true it and nobody likes that what 1469 01:07:55,190 --> 01:07:50,370 you want you want to be how you want to 1470 01:07:58,120 --> 01:07:55,200 have a certain feeling of that you that 1471 01:08:02,120 --> 01:08:00,770 most scientists most people don't want 1472 01:08:03,440 --> 01:08:02,130 to don't want to realize that we're 1473 01:08:07,880 --> 01:08:03,450 standing a little island and knowledge 1474 01:08:10,490 --> 01:08:07,890 and advanced sea of ignorance and that's 1475 01:08:11,210 --> 01:08:10,500 too scary we don't think about that yeah 1476 01:08:12,740 --> 01:08:11,220 yeah 1477 01:08:16,789 --> 01:08:12,750 alright well let's get into some of the 1478 01:08:21,530 --> 01:08:16,799 cases I know you said 2018 you've had 1479 01:08:23,030 --> 01:08:21,540 some really interesting about 2018 we 1480 01:08:28,030 --> 01:08:23,040 normally get a lot of cases we can 1481 01:08:30,620 --> 01:08:28,040 easily explain 2018 that proportion 1482 01:08:35,079 --> 01:08:30,630 dropped and we had more cases that were 1483 01:08:42,860 --> 01:08:35,089 unidentified by purport proportionally 1484 01:08:43,940 --> 01:08:42,870 and we had some now unfortunately a lot 1485 01:08:46,760 --> 01:08:43,950 of these cases are single or double 1486 01:08:48,980 --> 01:08:46,770 single witness maybe two witnesses it's 1487 01:08:53,260 --> 01:08:48,990 the single witness case there's always 1488 01:08:56,360 --> 01:08:53,270 some doubt fact a lot of them because 1489 01:08:58,490 --> 01:08:56,370 they could just be making it up and you 1490 01:09:00,620 --> 01:08:58,500 kind of have to go on you're actually 1491 01:09:03,740 --> 01:09:00,630 speaking to the person and your sense of 1492 01:09:06,099 --> 01:09:03,750 their credibility but there's really 1493 01:09:09,770 --> 01:09:06,109 very little scientific evidence that 1494 01:09:12,440 --> 01:09:09,780 anybody can just can tell what they're 1495 01:09:13,760 --> 01:09:12,450 being lied to or not that there's I've 1496 01:09:14,960 --> 01:09:13,770 heard it something about blue the blue 1497 01:09:15,349 --> 01:09:14,970 sense that cops know when they're being 1498 01:09:17,240 --> 01:09:15,359 lied to 1499 01:09:18,419 --> 01:09:17,250 but the studies that have been done have 1500 01:09:22,829 --> 01:09:18,429 shown 1501 01:09:26,959 --> 01:09:22,839 that's not so clear-cut so in fact that 1502 01:09:30,419 --> 01:09:26,969 the blue cents may not exist at all and 1503 01:09:34,769 --> 01:09:30,429 Psychopaths can lie with a straight face 1504 01:09:37,289 --> 01:09:34,779 and not give it away right but you still 1505 01:09:39,349 --> 01:09:37,299 you think probably when I talked to 1506 01:09:45,720 --> 01:09:39,359 someone and there were a reasonable and 1507 01:09:48,120 --> 01:09:45,730 they're very stable that and they show 1508 01:09:49,919 --> 01:09:48,130 great deal of interest in helping us 1509 01:09:53,010 --> 01:09:49,929 undo the investigation that they are not 1510 01:09:55,830 --> 01:09:53,020 hoaxing us they could potentially be 1511 01:09:58,649 --> 01:09:55,840 delusional or be massively 1512 01:10:00,780 --> 01:09:58,659 misinterpreting something what 1513 01:10:03,959 --> 01:10:00,790 so this well the first case I'd like to 1514 01:10:07,020 --> 01:10:03,969 mention was it's was invested by Marsh 1515 01:10:08,970 --> 01:10:07,030 Marsh of our heart can I just hold we're 1516 01:10:11,100 --> 01:10:08,980 getting people calling and now we're 1517 01:10:13,290 --> 01:10:11,110 gonna take calls in about 15 minutes so 1518 01:10:15,149 --> 01:10:13,300 if you're trying to call in please hold 1519 01:10:17,430 --> 01:10:15,159 off all right go ahead Marsha Barnett 1520 01:10:20,939 --> 01:10:17,440 yeah well Marsha did the investigation 1521 01:10:22,229 --> 01:10:20,949 of this case but it was it was in a some 1522 01:10:25,560 --> 01:10:22,239 Pennington New Jersey which is near 1523 01:10:28,080 --> 01:10:25,570 where I used to live in Princeton yeah 1524 01:10:34,050 --> 01:10:28,090 it's on it's in the west central part of 1525 01:10:36,870 --> 01:10:34,060 New Jersey near Trenton and this is a 1526 01:10:38,760 --> 01:10:36,880 kind of a this it's mostly semi rural in 1527 01:10:41,220 --> 01:10:38,770 that area but this is kind of a built-up 1528 01:10:45,390 --> 01:10:41,230 area that the guy was in and he was 1529 01:10:48,209 --> 01:10:45,400 walking to the store it was a nice warm 1530 01:10:50,880 --> 01:10:48,219 night and he was walking about ten 1531 01:10:55,200 --> 01:10:50,890 o'clock so just a little bit after dark 1532 01:10:58,080 --> 01:10:55,210 and he was walking on the street across 1533 01:10:59,840 --> 01:10:58,090 the street from the store and down in 1534 01:11:03,600 --> 01:10:59,850 front of some office buildings in a 1535 01:11:06,149 --> 01:11:03,610 private school and there were some trees 1536 01:11:10,050 --> 01:11:06,159 to his left and then just beyond those 1537 01:11:12,840 --> 01:11:10,060 trees a big large grassy area you know 1538 01:11:17,120 --> 01:11:12,850 maybe a hundred feet long or something 1539 01:11:20,399 --> 01:11:17,130 like that and he he looked up and he saw 1540 01:11:22,050 --> 01:11:20,409 a very bright light and so that's odd 1541 01:11:25,610 --> 01:11:22,060 and it came down I started descending 1542 01:11:27,810 --> 01:11:25,620 and now this is something we see a lot 1543 01:11:29,729 --> 01:11:27,820 people initially reported bright light 1544 01:11:31,280 --> 01:11:29,739 and then and it gets closer it's not a 1545 01:11:34,250 --> 01:11:31,290 bright light anymore mm-hmm it's 1546 01:11:35,900 --> 01:11:34,260 thing less bright something I've never 1547 01:11:37,940 --> 01:11:35,910 really figured out why that is the case 1548 01:11:42,500 --> 01:11:37,950 but it came down and he thought it was a 1549 01:11:45,830 --> 01:11:42,510 sphere with lights around the ring and 1550 01:11:47,900 --> 01:11:45,840 it came quite close to him it was it was 1551 01:11:49,910 --> 01:11:47,910 in that little grassy area he went he 1552 01:11:57,530 --> 01:11:49,920 went through the trees to get a better 1553 01:12:00,620 --> 01:11:57,540 look at it and it came down and and then 1554 01:12:02,900 --> 01:12:00,630 he saw that it was not a sphere but more 1555 01:12:04,550 --> 01:12:02,910 like two disks that were together 1556 01:12:10,880 --> 01:12:04,560 through discs of Lights that were 1557 01:12:12,200 --> 01:12:10,890 together and it one red one red disc and 1558 01:12:14,750 --> 01:12:12,210 one green disc I can't remember if the 1559 01:12:21,140 --> 01:12:14,760 red or the green but they they these two 1560 01:12:23,030 --> 01:12:21,150 just separated and one sort of stayed 1561 01:12:26,360 --> 01:12:23,040 back the other one started moving along 1562 01:12:29,600 --> 01:12:26,370 this lawn and a kind of a swirling like 1563 01:12:31,280 --> 01:12:29,610 a search pattern almost and it came 1564 01:12:33,830 --> 01:12:31,290 within 20 feet of him according to by 1565 01:12:36,770 --> 01:12:33,840 his estimate Wow so this is a close 1566 01:12:38,360 --> 01:12:36,780 encounter and we know that because it 1567 01:12:42,590 --> 01:12:38,370 was a he said it was just inches off the 1568 01:12:45,380 --> 01:12:42,600 ground and moving around and then the 1569 01:12:47,060 --> 01:12:45,390 two disks that one just kind of flew up 1570 01:12:48,800 --> 01:12:47,070 a little bit higher and the other just 1571 01:12:54,020 --> 01:12:48,810 came up and joined it and then they flew 1572 01:12:55,550 --> 01:12:54,030 off together disappeared that's and of 1573 01:12:56,870 --> 01:12:55,560 course he was enthralled 1574 01:13:03,020 --> 01:12:56,880 he wasn't terrified like some people 1575 01:13:04,340 --> 01:13:03,030 report hmm he was enthralled and but he 1576 01:13:06,890 --> 01:13:04,350 had to go to the store to get something 1577 01:13:08,360 --> 01:13:06,900 so he went to the store he ever did say 1578 01:13:10,160 --> 01:13:08,370 he was saved his receipt and he scanned 1579 01:13:14,990 --> 01:13:10,170 it for us so we could see what time he 1580 01:13:17,120 --> 01:13:15,000 was at the store and before and got his 1581 01:13:20,450 --> 01:13:17,130 stuff then came home and did a fantastic 1582 01:13:22,940 --> 01:13:20,460 job or anything up his signing he he'd 1583 01:13:25,250 --> 01:13:22,950 write several sketches which are all 1584 01:13:32,120 --> 01:13:25,260 available we have the report on our 1585 01:13:37,820 --> 01:13:32,130 website this is case 2018 - oh 1 0 - 10 1586 01:13:39,410 --> 01:13:37,830 basically and so when I I've been over 1587 01:13:42,140 --> 01:13:39,420 and over that one in my head what would 1588 01:13:44,240 --> 01:13:42,150 that look like it must have been so 1589 01:13:45,230 --> 01:13:44,250 weird and it's almost like some of the 1590 01:13:48,260 --> 01:13:45,240 dreams I had when I was at 1591 01:13:52,010 --> 01:13:48,270 child of Lights moving around and at 1592 01:13:54,340 --> 01:13:52,020 just one beautiful disc of green lights 1593 01:13:57,320 --> 01:13:54,350 one beautiful disc of red lights 1594 01:14:00,500 --> 01:13:57,330 separating and and that it separated and 1595 01:14:05,360 --> 01:14:00,510 they won and they turned and went from 1596 01:14:06,980 --> 01:14:05,370 vertical to horizontal and I thought 1597 01:14:08,870 --> 01:14:06,990 it's a great case but and the witness 1598 01:14:12,520 --> 01:14:08,880 was one of the best witnesses we ever 1599 01:14:14,300 --> 01:14:12,530 had he was highly cooperative Marshall 1600 01:14:15,290 --> 01:14:14,310 couldn't she couldn't get out there 1601 01:14:18,170 --> 01:14:15,300 right away 1602 01:14:20,660 --> 01:14:18,180 she lives in Michigan and this was in 1603 01:14:25,010 --> 01:14:20,670 New Jersey but she did get there about a 1604 01:14:28,490 --> 01:14:25,020 month later and met with him went out to 1605 01:14:32,420 --> 01:14:28,500 the site and you know they took pictures 1606 01:14:38,360 --> 01:14:32,430 and and got an idea of where they where 1607 01:14:40,430 --> 01:14:38,370 where the event occurred and it's uh now 1608 01:14:44,450 --> 01:14:40,440 isn't a glide path to the Trenton 1609 01:14:46,400 --> 01:14:44,460 Airport but this sure doesn't sound like 1610 01:14:49,790 --> 01:14:46,410 an air he could have misinterpreted an 1611 01:14:52,130 --> 01:14:49,800 airplane for this there were power lines 1612 01:14:54,370 --> 01:14:52,140 you know big high-voltage power lines 1613 01:14:56,720 --> 01:14:54,380 just across the street 1614 01:14:59,660 --> 01:14:56,730 so this couldn't have been a low-flying 1615 01:15:01,370 --> 01:14:59,670 aircraft because it it would've been too 1616 01:15:05,780 --> 01:15:01,380 dangerous to go through those power 1617 01:15:08,380 --> 01:15:05,790 lines but and it was silent yeah he said 1618 01:15:12,890 --> 01:15:08,390 he heard a little sound when the two 1619 01:15:15,440 --> 01:15:12,900 have separated but then he but it wasn't 1620 01:15:21,560 --> 01:15:15,450 a loud sound and then no sight no sound 1621 01:15:24,440 --> 01:15:21,570 at all and this is the frustrating thing 1622 01:15:27,800 --> 01:15:24,450 Marcia tried and tried to find someone 1623 01:15:30,560 --> 01:15:27,810 else who saw that yeah and nobody else 1624 01:15:32,480 --> 01:15:30,570 saw it and it was only ten o'clock at 1625 01:15:34,070 --> 01:15:32,490 night it's like you know there should 1626 01:15:39,290 --> 01:15:34,080 have been cars going by should have been 1627 01:15:41,510 --> 01:15:39,300 people coming out of the store the store 1628 01:15:42,980 --> 01:15:41,520 you know the store was fairly far on the 1629 01:15:45,530 --> 01:15:42,990 other side of the power line but it was 1630 01:15:47,690 --> 01:15:45,540 still just across the street 1631 01:15:49,670 --> 01:15:47,700 she took talk to the manager of the 1632 01:15:51,680 --> 01:15:49,680 store dough but nobody said anything she 1633 01:15:54,080 --> 01:15:51,690 couldn't get anyone and that that 1634 01:15:56,300 --> 01:15:54,090 happens so often where you think 1635 01:15:59,890 --> 01:15:56,310 somebody else should have seen this yeah 1636 01:16:03,110 --> 01:15:59,900 and no one's coming forward 1637 01:16:05,300 --> 01:16:03,120 so that was I think that's a good a 1638 01:16:07,900 --> 01:16:05,310 great single witness case yeah about as 1639 01:16:10,790 --> 01:16:07,910 good as a single witness case can get 1640 01:16:13,010 --> 01:16:10,800 another one saying yeah do you mind if 1641 01:16:15,230 --> 01:16:13,020 we take this this call is this person is 1642 01:16:17,540 --> 01:16:15,240 not going to stop here so not at all why 1643 01:16:20,690 --> 01:16:17,550 don't we just call otter 1644 01:16:22,040 --> 01:16:20,700 caller I'm finally up we're gonna wait 1645 01:16:24,200 --> 01:16:22,050 to take calls for another ten minutes 1646 01:16:27,080 --> 01:16:24,210 but I see you're persistent what's your 1647 01:16:28,670 --> 01:16:27,090 first name were you calling from my name 1648 01:16:32,240 --> 01:16:28,680 is Stevens Padilla I'm calling from 1649 01:16:35,660 --> 01:16:32,250 corrupt Nevada Oh out there in art Belle 1650 01:16:37,190 --> 01:16:35,670 country from Nevada yeah yeah how you 1651 01:16:39,830 --> 01:16:37,200 doing welcome to show and what's your 1652 01:16:42,980 --> 01:16:39,840 question for our guests my questions 1653 01:16:44,540 --> 01:16:42,990 regarding disclosure to Paul my question 1654 01:16:46,490 --> 01:16:44,550 is regarding do you think that the power 1655 01:16:50,000 --> 01:16:46,500 be whether it be the military government 1656 01:16:52,310 --> 01:16:50,010 deep state don't disclose because that 1657 01:16:55,120 --> 01:16:52,320 would be acknowledging a cattle 1658 01:16:59,500 --> 01:16:55,130 mutilations and abductions and now what 1659 01:17:05,300 --> 01:16:59,510 sure that the public would be at risk of 1660 01:17:09,800 --> 01:17:05,310 safety well I think it's an excellent 1661 01:17:11,090 --> 01:17:09,810 question but although I'm I'd have to 1662 01:17:13,850 --> 01:17:11,100 defer to people like Chris O'Brien on 1663 01:17:17,300 --> 01:17:13,860 cattle mutilations I I'm not an expert 1664 01:17:20,660 --> 01:17:17,310 on that at all I'm something on 1665 01:17:22,760 --> 01:17:20,670 abductions skeptic there may be a core 1666 01:17:26,300 --> 01:17:22,770 mystery there but I think most of most 1667 01:17:27,190 --> 01:17:26,310 of the that is largely a modern myth but 1668 01:17:30,080 --> 01:17:27,200 I 1669 01:17:31,520 --> 01:17:30,090 the problem with disclosure is just we 1670 01:17:34,250 --> 01:17:31,530 don't know what it is they would 1671 01:17:37,010 --> 01:17:34,260 disclose we don't know why they won't 1672 01:17:38,360 --> 01:17:37,020 disclose it and in fact when you say 1673 01:17:41,630 --> 01:17:38,370 they of course the government is not a 1674 01:17:42,860 --> 01:17:41,640 monolithic organization and there are a 1675 01:17:44,810 --> 01:17:42,870 lot of young people to come into the 1676 01:17:47,720 --> 01:17:44,820 government every year and then spend 1677 01:17:51,200 --> 01:17:47,730 some time there and then leave and the 1678 01:17:54,890 --> 01:17:51,210 UFO situations that going on since at 1679 01:17:59,060 --> 01:17:54,900 least world war ii so everybody that was 1680 01:18:01,520 --> 01:17:59,070 on project grudge or project sign or 1681 01:18:04,250 --> 01:18:01,530 there are up through the Robertson panel 1682 01:18:06,890 --> 01:18:04,260 and beyond they're dead 1683 01:18:12,290 --> 01:18:06,900 the the generation that was in charge in 1684 01:18:14,540 --> 01:18:12,300 the 1970s is dying off now so the 1685 01:18:17,390 --> 01:18:14,550 does that knowledge get passed on does 1686 01:18:19,069 --> 01:18:17,400 it just get shared or just get filed 1687 01:18:22,459 --> 01:18:19,079 away just get destroyed I don't know 1688 01:18:24,350 --> 01:18:22,469 there may not be anything when we say 1689 01:18:25,729 --> 01:18:24,360 the government there may be no one in 1690 01:18:28,580 --> 01:18:25,739 the government who knows what the 1691 01:18:31,359 --> 01:18:28,590 government knows and the other thing is 1692 01:18:36,350 --> 01:18:31,369 I know if you've seen the last scene of 1693 01:18:40,759 --> 01:18:36,360 Raiders of the Lost Ark yeah but the Ark 1694 01:18:43,580 --> 01:18:40,769 gets put in a crate right and gets gets 1695 01:18:45,979 --> 01:18:43,590 stored in a big warehouse where it's 1696 01:18:47,390 --> 01:18:45,989 just got a number and yeah a cryptic 1697 01:18:52,129 --> 01:18:47,400 piece of paper that describes what it is 1698 01:18:55,370 --> 01:18:52,139 right and then so it's it's a it's the 1699 01:18:58,399 --> 01:18:55,380 best way to hide it is to put it you 1700 01:19:00,410 --> 01:18:58,409 know in the government warehouse nobody 1701 01:19:02,629 --> 01:19:00,420 knows that you know there might be one 1702 01:19:05,000 --> 01:19:02,639 or two people who know and then they'll 1703 01:19:08,390 --> 01:19:05,010 be you know 30 40 years later they don't 1704 01:19:13,250 --> 01:19:08,400 they're gone so my feeling about 1705 01:19:14,450 --> 01:19:13,260 disclosure is that which we don't know 1706 01:19:17,299 --> 01:19:14,460 that if anything there's anything to 1707 01:19:20,379 --> 01:19:17,309 disclose and what is there is to 1708 01:19:22,850 --> 01:19:20,389 disclose may have nothing to do with 1709 01:19:26,359 --> 01:19:22,860 abductions or cattle mutilations I 1710 01:19:29,750 --> 01:19:26,369 suspect the reason the reason that the 1711 01:19:31,129 --> 01:19:29,760 data are kept secret and again like 1712 01:19:33,770 --> 01:19:31,139 we're discussing earlier with a navy 1713 01:19:36,470 --> 01:19:33,780 this could be like the raw data there's 1714 01:19:38,120 --> 01:19:36,480 lots of reasons one is initially when 1715 01:19:39,620 --> 01:19:38,130 the first couple days collected its 1716 01:19:41,899 --> 01:19:39,630 collected by systems that are that are 1717 01:19:48,819 --> 01:19:41,909 classified and so they can't release 1718 01:19:53,000 --> 01:19:48,829 that the second situation is that that 1719 01:19:54,979 --> 01:19:53,010 the the data no one wants to be the the 1720 01:19:56,810 --> 01:19:54,989 one that sent the general that stands up 1721 01:20:01,239 --> 01:19:56,820 there at the press conference and says 1722 01:20:05,330 --> 01:20:01,249 the aliens are here unless they have 1723 01:20:06,890 --> 01:20:05,340 absolutely rock-hard solid case that 1724 01:20:09,379 --> 01:20:06,900 they could make to the scientific 1725 01:20:10,569 --> 01:20:09,389 community if they can't do that they are 1726 01:20:15,080 --> 01:20:10,579 just going to get left out of the room 1727 01:20:18,259 --> 01:20:15,090 so no does anyone have that case put 1728 01:20:20,149 --> 01:20:18,269 together I doubt it I doubt it 1729 01:20:22,580 --> 01:20:20,159 so there may be pieces of it that are 1730 01:20:25,069 --> 01:20:22,590 known to some senior people in some 1731 01:20:26,140 --> 01:20:25,079 areas you know and John Alexander goes 1732 01:20:29,560 --> 01:20:26,150 around telling everybody that there 1733 01:20:30,760 --> 01:20:29,570 anything like that and you know he's got 1734 01:20:33,670 --> 01:20:30,770 more experience the military than I do 1735 01:20:35,890 --> 01:20:33,680 but but I I don't 1736 01:20:37,510 --> 01:20:35,900 so I answer your question is I don't 1737 01:20:40,900 --> 01:20:37,520 know why it's not disclosed I don't know 1738 01:20:42,610 --> 01:20:40,910 what is to be disclosed but I doubt it 1739 01:20:45,850 --> 01:20:42,620 has to do with actually public fear and 1740 01:20:48,160 --> 01:20:45,860 more with fear from the disclosure 1741 01:20:50,770 --> 01:20:48,170 themselves you know am I going to be 1742 01:20:53,740 --> 01:20:50,780 ridiculed for claiming something that I 1743 01:20:56,760 --> 01:20:53,750 can't back up and you know this is what 1744 01:21:00,910 --> 01:20:56,770 when when Corso came out a few years ago 1745 01:21:01,680 --> 01:21:00,920 with his claims he had zero evidence to 1746 01:21:03,790 --> 01:21:01,690 back it up 1747 01:21:05,260 --> 01:21:03,800 now I don't know if he's claimed her 1748 01:21:07,390 --> 01:21:05,270 true or false I suspect they're false 1749 01:21:11,500 --> 01:21:07,400 but I don't really know that for a fact 1750 01:21:14,650 --> 01:21:11,510 but since he couldn't back it up how do 1751 01:21:17,710 --> 01:21:14,660 we you know how he'll never be taken 1752 01:21:19,570 --> 01:21:17,720 seriously now he was retired he didn't 1753 01:21:20,830 --> 01:21:19,580 care but somebody's actually in the 1754 01:21:22,480 --> 01:21:20,840 government right now was as a senior 1755 01:21:25,180 --> 01:21:22,490 position who would have to prove that 1756 01:21:27,250 --> 01:21:25,190 it's not going to prove it unless unless 1757 01:21:29,350 --> 01:21:27,260 a team of scientists with a lot of 1758 01:21:30,730 --> 01:21:29,360 funding get together and say we've 1759 01:21:32,230 --> 01:21:30,740 studied this for years and we think it's 1760 01:21:34,360 --> 01:21:32,240 rock we can prove it 1761 01:21:37,330 --> 01:21:34,370 yeah all right Stephen thank you for the 1762 01:21:39,460 --> 01:21:37,340 call thank you very much all right all 1763 01:21:43,260 --> 01:21:39,470 right all right well you know we might 1764 01:21:45,640 --> 01:21:43,270 as well go into opening up the lines and 1765 01:21:47,860 --> 01:21:45,650 again next week we'll have a phone 1766 01:21:49,900 --> 01:21:47,870 system this week we're relying on skype 1767 01:21:52,210 --> 01:21:49,910 so if you do call in make sure your mute 1768 01:21:53,950 --> 01:21:52,220 your your listening device so that it 1769 01:21:57,910 --> 01:21:53,960 doesn't feed back through the loop here 1770 01:22:00,250 --> 01:21:57,920 but before we get our next call why 1771 01:22:03,310 --> 01:22:00,260 don't you go into another interesting 1772 01:22:05,890 --> 01:22:03,320 case and okay this might might interrupt 1773 01:22:07,900 --> 01:22:05,900 you with a call when it comes in so well 1774 01:22:11,650 --> 01:22:07,910 there was one in water Fleet New York 1775 01:22:16,350 --> 01:22:11,660 last year that this is what I mentioned 1776 01:22:21,730 --> 01:22:16,360 earlier that a guy saw a rectangular 1777 01:22:25,410 --> 01:22:21,740 roughly textured object again when he 1778 01:22:27,820 --> 01:22:25,420 first saw it was a bright light and then 1779 01:22:31,150 --> 01:22:27,830 then he looked at its binoculars and he 1780 01:22:33,910 --> 01:22:31,160 saw sort of electric blue glow around it 1781 01:22:36,190 --> 01:22:33,920 but not the bright lighting and then he 1782 01:22:38,740 --> 01:22:36,200 saw it said it was like a dark thing and 1783 01:22:39,850 --> 01:22:38,750 it was now this one was tumbling but it 1784 01:22:41,650 --> 01:22:39,860 seemed he said it the tumbling 1785 01:22:46,630 --> 01:22:41,660 seemed to be control tumbling it wasn't 1786 01:22:48,700 --> 01:22:46,640 it wasn't just randomly tumbling and he 1787 01:22:52,810 --> 01:22:48,710 gave us a sketch of it that he drew with 1788 01:22:56,110 --> 01:22:52,820 like a I don't know a Microsoft Paint or 1789 01:22:58,390 --> 01:22:56,120 something like that that has we've got 1790 01:23:02,920 --> 01:22:58,400 we got the pictures on our website that 1791 01:23:04,270 --> 01:23:02,930 that's case 1801 three I think again 1792 01:23:06,550 --> 01:23:04,280 another very good witness 1793 01:23:08,710 --> 01:23:06,560 this was this was now this was at 2:00 1794 01:23:11,740 --> 01:23:08,720 a.m. I don't know it was 1:00 o'clock 1795 01:23:13,030 --> 01:23:11,750 a.m. and I so I think that he it's not 1796 01:23:17,500 --> 01:23:13,040 surprising nobody else saw it 1797 01:23:20,050 --> 01:23:17,510 mm-hm it's a and again Marcia wood 1798 01:23:23,410 --> 01:23:20,060 investigated that one and she could not 1799 01:23:25,930 --> 01:23:23,420 find any cooperation at all and that 1800 01:23:29,830 --> 01:23:25,940 that's again if corporation is really 1801 01:23:34,000 --> 01:23:29,840 rare I have a 2017 case which is not 1802 01:23:36,640 --> 01:23:34,010 tarrant highly strange but a gentleman 1803 01:23:38,170 --> 01:23:36,650 in United Kingdom in Cornwall which is 1804 01:23:44,410 --> 01:23:38,180 that spit of land that sudden the sort 1805 01:23:46,000 --> 01:23:44,420 of the southwest of England and he he 1806 01:23:48,280 --> 01:23:46,010 likes to take pictures of clouds and so 1807 01:23:50,890 --> 01:23:48,290 he was taking a time-lapse of the clouds 1808 01:23:54,940 --> 01:23:50,900 that were going by his house in Cornwall 1809 01:24:00,160 --> 01:23:54,950 and he noticed later that there were 1810 01:24:03,490 --> 01:24:00,170 these two specks that were persistently 1811 01:24:04,900 --> 01:24:03,500 in the same place in the frame and well 1812 01:24:07,570 --> 01:24:04,910 the first thing I thought is well okay 1813 01:24:09,580 --> 01:24:07,580 guys got a problems camera so but he was 1814 01:24:11,290 --> 01:24:09,590 great I asked him would you take some 1815 01:24:15,040 --> 01:24:11,300 pictures on a gray card of your camera 1816 01:24:18,370 --> 01:24:15,050 so I could see mm-hmm yeah yeah and no 1817 01:24:19,540 --> 01:24:18,380 the specks weren't there and he took a 1818 01:24:23,020 --> 01:24:19,550 lot of other pictures and the specs 1819 01:24:25,480 --> 01:24:23,030 weren't there they appeared and and he 1820 01:24:27,190 --> 01:24:25,490 he himself did a lot of analysis trying 1821 01:24:28,390 --> 01:24:27,200 to say well are they going behind that 1822 01:24:30,640 --> 01:24:28,400 cloud or they in front of the cloud 1823 01:24:35,290 --> 01:24:30,650 whether a cloud passed in front of them 1824 01:24:36,550 --> 01:24:35,300 so they're distant and I looked at that 1825 01:24:38,950 --> 01:24:36,560 closely and I had to agree with them 1826 01:24:40,450 --> 01:24:38,960 that they the cloud was passing in front 1827 01:24:42,040 --> 01:24:40,460 of them I did a lot of work to try 1828 01:24:43,750 --> 01:24:42,050 figure what direction he was looking in 1829 01:24:45,940 --> 01:24:43,760 and so forth I think he was initially 1830 01:24:49,180 --> 01:24:45,950 mistaken about the direction but I kind 1831 01:24:51,130 --> 01:24:49,190 of got that fixed uh based upon the fact 1832 01:24:53,229 --> 01:24:51,140 that I see houses and put in the frame 1833 01:24:58,360 --> 01:24:53,239 that I knew where the houses were so on 1834 01:24:59,470 --> 01:24:58,370 but anyway I I looked at I said it's 1835 01:25:00,940 --> 01:24:59,480 very interesting but there's there 1836 01:25:02,890 --> 01:25:00,950 there's two things that are stationary 1837 01:25:05,530 --> 01:25:02,900 at a distance aren't moving they're not 1838 01:25:08,560 --> 01:25:05,540 doing anything unusual I can't tell you 1839 01:25:09,970 --> 01:25:08,570 what they are had no idea but yeah maybe 1840 01:25:14,200 --> 01:25:09,980 the British Navy is up to something out 1841 01:25:16,209 --> 01:25:14,210 there I don't know but the coolest thing 1842 01:25:19,570 --> 01:25:16,219 was that about a year later somebody 1843 01:25:20,500 --> 01:25:19,580 contacted him with a very similar image 1844 01:25:24,120 --> 01:25:20,510 that they had taken independently 1845 01:25:26,290 --> 01:25:24,130 somebody who didn't know him mm-hmm and 1846 01:25:28,450 --> 01:25:26,300 couldn't so it confirmed that those two 1847 01:25:33,940 --> 01:25:28,460 things were out there now again not 1848 01:25:35,950 --> 01:25:33,950 highly strange but you know to object 1849 01:25:40,000 --> 01:25:35,960 and now they were probably over the 1850 01:25:41,590 --> 01:25:40,010 Irish Sea but that's just a guess on my 1851 01:25:45,520 --> 01:25:41,600 part they might have been over overland 1852 01:25:47,470 --> 01:25:45,530 Wow and the if they were they could have 1853 01:25:49,810 --> 01:25:47,480 been many miles away and they were quite 1854 01:25:51,010 --> 01:25:49,820 large hey Paul we get a ton of people 1855 01:25:53,620 --> 01:25:51,020 trying to call and we actually have 1856 01:25:55,630 --> 01:25:53,630 someone waiting right now okay 1857 01:25:57,459 --> 01:25:55,640 so we'll also take some calls caller 1858 01:26:02,280 --> 01:25:57,469 you're on the line at your first name 1859 01:26:09,370 --> 01:26:05,490 Pat yeah were you calling from path yeah 1860 01:26:19,600 --> 01:26:09,380 North Carolina I know you got a question 1861 01:26:22,030 --> 01:26:19,610 for our guy Riddick killed so much for 1862 01:26:26,650 --> 01:26:22,040 talking about it it hurts people to 1863 01:26:30,310 --> 01:26:26,660 report anything I mean I even called 1864 01:26:34,270 --> 01:26:30,320 like drooling for a witness and they 1865 01:26:36,190 --> 01:26:34,280 just laughed me off but I thought it was 1866 01:26:36,610 --> 01:26:36,200 pretty odd it was like 2:30 in the 1867 01:26:39,910 --> 01:26:36,620 morning 1868 01:26:42,880 --> 01:26:39,920 but besides the school bus I have red 1869 01:26:45,850 --> 01:26:42,890 blue and white white I just hover for 1870 01:26:48,910 --> 01:26:45,860 like 15 20 minutes then it came down and 1871 01:26:55,000 --> 01:26:48,920 below the tree line and then hovered 1872 01:26:58,780 --> 01:26:55,010 back up and blew off but couldn't get 1873 01:27:01,920 --> 01:26:58,790 anyone come up check it out with him but 1874 01:27:06,240 --> 01:27:01,930 that's really interesting yeah well I 1875 01:27:07,890 --> 01:27:06,250 who did you contact you contact MUFON 1876 01:27:11,850 --> 01:27:07,900 no I haven't talked to anybody your 1877 01:27:13,050 --> 01:27:11,860 first first out there huh well you know 1878 01:27:15,300 --> 01:27:13,060 we no longer have anybody in North 1879 01:27:19,710 --> 01:27:15,310 Carolina but that sounds like a really 1880 01:27:22,170 --> 01:27:19,720 good case did anybody else see it sir 1881 01:27:31,920 --> 01:27:22,180 did anybody else see it beside yourself 1882 01:27:33,570 --> 01:27:31,930 no they would they wouldn't come on now 1883 01:27:37,070 --> 01:27:33,580 what kind of power plan is this is this 1884 01:27:42,930 --> 01:27:37,080 a conventional or nuclear 1885 01:27:46,550 --> 01:27:42,940 it's a conventional well there's been 1886 01:27:51,320 --> 01:27:46,560 other sightings and many of the plants 1887 01:27:56,670 --> 01:27:51,330 around there some of the nuclear and 1888 01:27:57,270 --> 01:27:56,680 yeah it was really strange but thank you 1889 01:28:00,120 --> 01:27:57,280 anyway 1890 01:28:01,860 --> 01:28:00,130 you know you port that to MUFON or you 1891 01:28:04,410 --> 01:28:01,870 can report it actually to Paul sight 1892 01:28:09,060 --> 01:28:04,420 Paul get that give that address out just 1893 01:28:12,930 --> 01:28:09,070 go to report a UFO RG and it's a very 1894 01:28:14,160 --> 01:28:12,940 simple form now like I said know anybody 1895 01:28:15,990 --> 01:28:14,170 in North Carolina but we'd be a 1896 01:28:27,300 --> 01:28:16,000 particular port and learn what we can 1897 01:28:28,860 --> 01:28:27,310 from it the and make sketch yeah well 1898 01:28:30,930 --> 01:28:28,870 the best ways to remember keep your 1899 01:28:33,150 --> 01:28:30,940 memories fresh is to is to make a 1900 01:28:40,020 --> 01:28:33,160 picture and draw a picture of it and oh 1901 01:28:44,550 --> 01:28:40,030 yeah yeah well I'm sorry that's the case 1902 01:28:47,880 --> 01:28:44,560 but you know we we that's why we make 1903 01:28:50,790 --> 01:28:47,890 our reports completely anonymous 1904 01:28:52,800 --> 01:28:50,800 that is we never tell anybody the name 1905 01:28:55,770 --> 01:28:52,810 of the name or contact information of 1906 01:28:57,090 --> 01:28:55,780 the person that made the report make it 1907 01:28:59,070 --> 01:28:57,100 they can tell other people if they want 1908 01:29:04,920 --> 01:28:59,080 to but they won't get that information 1909 01:29:07,080 --> 01:29:04,930 from us and yeah and okay we appreciate 1910 01:29:08,520 --> 01:29:07,090 it all right thank you very much 1911 01:29:10,830 --> 01:29:08,530 thanks for the call Pat all right thank 1912 01:29:14,310 --> 01:29:10,840 you all right he's the sort of person I 1913 01:29:17,280 --> 01:29:14,320 think you know just my first impression 1914 01:29:19,560 --> 01:29:17,290 he's sincere yeah he really did see 1915 01:29:20,339 --> 01:29:19,570 something I don't know what it was but 1916 01:29:22,199 --> 01:29:20,349 he saw some 1917 01:29:23,729 --> 01:29:22,209 all right we have another caller just 1918 01:29:28,439 --> 01:29:23,739 calling in right now I'll call your 1919 01:29:30,449 --> 01:29:28,449 first name and where you calling from my 1920 01:29:33,060 --> 01:29:30,459 name is Alan Dubois and colon 1921 01:29:36,060 --> 01:29:33,070 consistently hampshire and i want to 1922 01:29:38,429 --> 01:29:36,070 know what paul might have thought about 1923 01:29:41,129 --> 01:29:38,439 the the incident that happened at the 1924 01:29:44,489 --> 01:29:41,139 ariel school in africa back in the 1925 01:29:46,799 --> 01:29:44,499 1990's well you know I'm not an expert 1926 01:29:48,049 --> 01:29:46,809 on that I do know what you're talking 1927 01:29:51,899 --> 01:29:48,059 about 1928 01:29:53,969 --> 01:29:51,909 but I'm gonna have to defer to the 1929 01:29:56,729 --> 01:29:53,979 experts I don't have a I haven't 1930 01:29:58,409 --> 01:29:56,739 investigated it I thought I have found 1931 01:30:02,250 --> 01:29:58,419 that sometimes I look at famous cases 1932 01:30:04,169 --> 01:30:02,260 and look hard at them sometimes the 1933 01:30:06,689 --> 01:30:04,179 evidence isn't as strong as has been 1934 01:30:11,819 --> 01:30:06,699 presented by those who have an invested 1935 01:30:13,949 --> 01:30:11,829 interest in and presenting it but I I 1936 01:30:16,080 --> 01:30:13,959 don't want to give it a render a verdict 1937 01:30:19,609 --> 01:30:16,090 because I'm afraid I I just don't know 1938 01:30:22,290 --> 01:30:19,619 enough about that case I I can speak on 1939 01:30:24,299 --> 01:30:22,300 hang on I can talk on a little bit okay 1940 01:30:28,589 --> 01:30:24,309 we've had we've had one of the witnesses 1941 01:30:31,199 --> 01:30:28,599 up on this show a couple of times she's 1942 01:30:35,330 --> 01:30:31,209 now in her 20s and lives in California 1943 01:30:37,739 --> 01:30:35,340 and very very convincing articulate and 1944 01:30:39,620 --> 01:30:37,749 also I'm a friend of Randy Nickerson 1945 01:30:41,969 --> 01:30:39,630 who's creating the film aerial 1946 01:30:45,569 --> 01:30:41,979 phenomenon which should be out it's it's 1947 01:30:48,629 --> 01:30:45,579 all done he's just in and looking for 1948 01:30:50,399 --> 01:30:48,639 where to how to present the film so 1949 01:30:54,060 --> 01:30:50,409 that's coming out soon and Randy will be 1950 01:30:56,219 --> 01:30:54,070 on at some point with another witness to 1951 01:31:01,319 --> 01:30:56,229 that case to me I think that's one of 1952 01:31:03,330 --> 01:31:01,329 the most amazing incredible cases with 1953 01:31:06,359 --> 01:31:03,340 all those kids what you're going to see 1954 01:31:09,449 --> 01:31:06,369 in that aerial phenomena movie coming 1955 01:31:11,100 --> 01:31:09,459 out is them talking about it then and 1956 01:31:14,489 --> 01:31:11,110 them talking about it now how it's 1957 01:31:16,290 --> 01:31:14,499 affected their lives but anyway I think 1958 01:31:17,879 --> 01:31:16,300 it's a really good one thanks for the 1959 01:31:20,189 --> 01:31:17,889 call from Bristol New Hampshire not too 1960 01:31:24,299 --> 01:31:20,199 far as the crow flies from where I am 1961 01:31:26,669 --> 01:31:24,309 right now all right yeah I appreciate 1962 01:31:28,799 --> 01:31:26,679 your time and like I said I'm looking 1963 01:31:30,389 --> 01:31:28,809 forward to that moving myself so you 1964 01:31:32,879 --> 01:31:30,399 have a great day now all right you too 1965 01:31:33,290 --> 01:31:32,889 all right so the lines open if anyone 1966 01:31:35,900 --> 01:31:33,300 wants 1967 01:31:38,260 --> 01:31:35,910 call in otherwise up are you familiar 1968 01:31:41,030 --> 01:31:38,270 with where we were before that last call 1969 01:31:43,940 --> 01:31:41,040 what we were talking about oh I think I 1970 01:31:45,860 --> 01:31:43,950 just last one yeah New York case yeah 1971 01:31:49,550 --> 01:31:45,870 which again another single in this case 1972 01:31:52,910 --> 01:31:49,560 I can talk about a double witness case 1973 01:31:54,260 --> 01:31:52,920 though that we investigated let we 1974 01:31:59,150 --> 01:31:54,270 investigate it last year but it happened 1975 01:32:00,580 --> 01:31:59,160 in 2017 and again now this is a married 1976 01:32:02,720 --> 01:32:00,590 couple 1977 01:32:06,770 --> 01:32:02,730 it had a child with them but the child 1978 01:32:09,800 --> 01:32:06,780 was asleep and so and we generally don't 1979 01:32:13,670 --> 01:32:09,810 don't interview children anyway unless 1980 01:32:17,480 --> 01:32:13,680 there's their parents really want the 1981 01:32:20,920 --> 01:32:17,490 child to be interviewed but this is a 1982 01:32:24,820 --> 01:32:20,930 married couple and they were out in a 1983 01:32:28,370 --> 01:32:24,830 like a state park in Utah 1984 01:32:30,260 --> 01:32:28,380 not far from Salt Lake and about 40 1985 01:32:36,770 --> 01:32:30,270 miles from the Dugway proving grounds so 1986 01:32:39,200 --> 01:32:36,780 pretty far away from there and they went 1987 01:32:42,790 --> 01:32:39,210 there to see meteors so they they got 1988 01:32:45,740 --> 01:32:42,800 out of their car and they this was a 1989 01:32:52,820 --> 01:32:45,750 kind of a hilly area but not too hilly 1990 01:32:53,840 --> 01:32:52,830 they could see pretty far and they they 1991 01:32:56,480 --> 01:32:53,850 were there just to see a meteor shower 1992 01:32:58,370 --> 01:32:56,490 and the fellow had some binoculars with 1993 01:33:04,370 --> 01:32:58,380 them although that not very useful for 1994 01:33:06,680 --> 01:33:04,380 watching meteors but the and they saw 1995 01:33:07,760 --> 01:33:06,690 this light come over the horizon at 1996 01:33:13,400 --> 01:33:07,770 first think that they thought it was a 1997 01:33:16,220 --> 01:33:13,410 plane but then it came right over them 1998 01:33:20,300 --> 01:33:16,230 and they described it as roughly the 1999 01:33:21,500 --> 01:33:20,310 size of a school bus now of course they 2000 01:33:25,760 --> 01:33:21,510 didn't really know how far away it was 2001 01:33:27,680 --> 01:33:25,770 because it was there's no way to but we 2002 01:33:28,730 --> 01:33:27,690 called it a close encounter because the 2003 01:33:29,720 --> 01:33:28,740 wife actually thought I was even closer 2004 01:33:31,850 --> 01:33:29,730 than that she thought it might have been 2005 01:33:35,960 --> 01:33:31,860 a hundred feet away the husband thought 2006 01:33:38,120 --> 01:33:35,970 it was further neither one could be sure 2007 01:33:39,650 --> 01:33:38,130 of course he looked at it through 2008 01:33:42,380 --> 01:33:39,660 binoculars it filled up the field of 2009 01:33:44,630 --> 01:33:42,390 view of his binoculars they know there 2010 01:33:48,380 --> 01:33:44,640 was a soft blue glow it stopped over 2011 01:33:54,900 --> 01:33:51,930 now this is where she started to get 2012 01:33:56,100 --> 01:33:54,910 creeped out because it stopped over them 2013 01:33:59,160 --> 01:33:56,110 she thought it it was you know it's 2014 01:34:01,800 --> 01:33:59,170 watching us whenever that is it's paying 2015 01:34:04,950 --> 01:34:01,810 attention to us and then it flew on flew 2016 01:34:09,240 --> 01:34:04,960 flew from from west to east flew flew 2017 01:34:12,000 --> 01:34:09,250 flew away and she was very creeped out 2018 01:34:13,020 --> 01:34:12,010 she did not want to know what was behind 2019 01:34:16,080 --> 01:34:13,030 that she thought something was behind 2020 01:34:19,709 --> 01:34:16,090 the trees and their child was in the car 2021 01:34:21,209 --> 01:34:19,719 so she said let's get out here they did 2022 01:34:24,630 --> 01:34:21,219 he was the meteor start hadn't really 2023 01:34:26,459 --> 01:34:24,640 even cut started to peek yet and but she 2024 01:34:30,420 --> 01:34:26,469 we're getting out of here and they they 2025 01:34:34,440 --> 01:34:30,430 they bolted and we did get statements 2026 01:34:36,090 --> 01:34:34,450 from both of them and a good two in this 2027 01:34:38,130 --> 01:34:36,100 case but channeling with the two people 2028 01:34:39,630 --> 01:34:38,140 know each other really well it's not 2029 01:34:42,930 --> 01:34:39,640 quite as independent as you'd like 2030 01:34:46,890 --> 01:34:42,940 so because they'll talk about it sure 2031 01:34:49,380 --> 01:34:46,900 and and not everybody's the smartest 2032 01:34:55,740 --> 01:34:49,390 class falling about how to handle that 2033 01:35:00,120 --> 01:34:55,750 right so we we did get a good same and 2034 01:35:02,220 --> 01:35:00,130 it's good and then but again the local 2035 01:35:04,229 --> 01:35:02,230 people had not seen anything there were 2036 01:35:06,870 --> 01:35:04,239 no other other people parked in that 2037 01:35:09,150 --> 01:35:06,880 area that would have seen it that's the 2038 01:35:12,990 --> 01:35:09,160 that's the grand prize if you can get 2039 01:35:16,200 --> 01:35:13,000 multiple independent witnesses that 2040 01:35:17,690 --> 01:35:16,210 describes something very similar that is 2041 01:35:23,750 --> 01:35:17,700 really what you're going for 2042 01:35:26,070 --> 01:35:23,760 corroboration is the key thing and so I 2043 01:35:27,240 --> 01:35:26,080 mention these cases partly because I'm 2044 01:35:29,310 --> 01:35:27,250 hoping somebody else has seen something 2045 01:35:31,050 --> 01:35:29,320 similar even at the same time at a 2046 01:35:33,360 --> 01:35:31,060 different time and they can tell us what 2047 01:35:36,990 --> 01:35:33,370 they've seen and they can go to report a 2048 01:35:42,270 --> 01:35:37,000 UFO no RG and give us a report it will 2049 01:35:45,209 --> 01:35:42,280 help us shore up that investigation you 2050 01:35:47,330 --> 01:35:45,219 know it you know and you know we are we 2051 01:35:51,240 --> 01:35:47,340 done we're a small organization there's 2052 01:35:53,280 --> 01:35:51,250 we just took on a trainee that's and she 2053 01:35:56,610 --> 01:35:53,290 will be our our fourth field 2054 01:35:58,050 --> 01:35:56,620 investigator will probably never grow to 2055 01:36:00,730 --> 01:35:58,060 a very long we don't want we don't want 2056 01:36:03,220 --> 01:36:00,740 to be the next MUFON 2057 01:36:07,060 --> 01:36:03,230 I'd be because I want to know every case 2058 01:36:11,500 --> 01:36:07,070 that's going on I figured that's 15 2059 01:36:13,240 --> 01:36:11,510 people tops so yeah if I can't know 2060 01:36:16,150 --> 01:36:13,250 every case that's that then we're too 2061 01:36:20,770 --> 01:36:16,160 big but but we would like to ally with 2062 01:36:22,210 --> 01:36:20,780 other organizations so that if we can't 2063 01:36:25,780 --> 01:36:22,220 get boots on the ground somewhere than 2064 01:36:29,320 --> 01:36:25,790 they can then that would be great and 2065 01:36:32,740 --> 01:36:29,330 vice versa we could in some cases where 2066 01:36:34,240 --> 01:36:32,750 they can and but they'd have to be an 2067 01:36:37,390 --> 01:36:34,250 infinite organization that had the same 2068 01:36:38,980 --> 01:36:37,400 ethical policies that we do or very 2069 01:36:40,750 --> 01:36:38,990 similar ethical policies because we're 2070 01:36:44,230 --> 01:36:40,760 big on we're big on ethics 2071 01:36:50,620 --> 01:36:44,240 we're big on treating the witnesses 2072 01:36:55,320 --> 01:36:50,630 well-being is first priority and we but 2073 01:37:00,940 --> 01:36:57,730 where a young lady in Bethlehem 2074 01:37:05,170 --> 01:37:00,950 Pennsylvania saw a flying saucer 2075 01:37:08,920 --> 01:37:05,180 very classic flying saucer very close to 2076 01:37:10,840 --> 01:37:08,930 the ground on a public street not out in 2077 01:37:17,380 --> 01:37:10,850 the country but you know in Bethlehem 2078 01:37:19,810 --> 01:37:17,390 Pennsylvania and we could not get we 2079 01:37:23,260 --> 01:37:19,820 could not get up there right away uh it 2080 01:37:25,120 --> 01:37:23,270 was only a month later that Marsha and 2081 01:37:28,600 --> 01:37:25,130 her husband were able to visit Bethlehem 2082 01:37:30,160 --> 01:37:28,610 and take video of the area but you know 2083 01:37:31,930 --> 01:37:30,170 I wanted to look for broken tree limbs I 2084 01:37:34,780 --> 01:37:31,940 wanted to look for damage to street 2085 01:37:36,220 --> 01:37:34,790 signs scuff marks anything that might 2086 01:37:38,020 --> 01:37:36,230 have indicated that this thing 2087 01:37:41,560 --> 01:37:38,030 physically was there and disturbed 2088 01:37:45,270 --> 01:37:41,570 something and I couldn't find it and a 2089 01:37:48,430 --> 01:37:45,280 month is really too late you know and so 2090 01:37:51,070 --> 01:37:48,440 if so and I go I went on to read the 2091 01:37:53,890 --> 01:37:51,080 reddit UFO or I mean there's anybody 2092 01:37:54,820 --> 01:37:53,900 that can go I'm not gonna I'm not going 2093 01:37:56,620 --> 01:37:54,830 to give you a witness contact 2094 01:38:00,010 --> 01:37:56,630 information but I if you can go to this 2095 01:38:02,560 --> 01:38:00,020 location this exact location and look 2096 01:38:05,080 --> 01:38:02,570 just look for anything unusual and take 2097 01:38:06,580 --> 01:38:05,090 pictures I would really appreciate it 2098 01:38:08,080 --> 01:38:06,590 and we had people say yeah I'm in 2099 01:38:09,640 --> 01:38:08,090 Bethlehem but I don't think I'm gonna do 2100 01:38:12,229 --> 01:38:09,650 that 2101 01:38:12,800 --> 01:38:12,239 okay take you ten minutes dude just go 2102 01:38:17,330 --> 01:38:12,810 do it 2103 01:38:18,220 --> 01:38:17,340 yeah but no like I'm not I'm not a great 2104 01:38:25,070 --> 01:38:18,230 persuader 2105 01:38:26,990 --> 01:38:25,080 so the we really couldn't get now was we 2106 01:38:29,540 --> 01:38:27,000 still don't know what she saw was what 2107 01:38:33,050 --> 01:38:29,550 she thinks she saw she was still you 2108 01:38:34,880 --> 01:38:33,060 know a way so she was with a block or so 2109 01:38:38,420 --> 01:38:34,890 loved it when she saw and she got 2110 01:38:42,560 --> 01:38:38,430 terrified and made a sharp right turn 2111 01:38:43,850 --> 01:38:42,570 and turned around but she saw something 2112 01:38:49,310 --> 01:38:43,860 yeah 2113 01:38:50,540 --> 01:38:49,320 but the police didn't have any calls you 2114 01:38:52,400 --> 01:38:50,550 know first of all the first thing you do 2115 01:38:54,320 --> 01:38:52,410 is you call it you call you contact the 2116 01:38:59,150 --> 01:38:54,330 local authorities and say did you get 2117 01:39:03,530 --> 01:38:59,160 calls did you have any anyone alarms go 2118 01:39:05,810 --> 01:39:03,540 off or anything like that no nothing 2119 01:39:07,640 --> 01:39:05,820 if I'd been there if I had been there 2120 01:39:08,750 --> 01:39:07,650 the next day I would have knocked on 2121 01:39:10,820 --> 01:39:08,760 some of the doors that people who live 2122 01:39:13,160 --> 01:39:10,830 right around there and said do you have 2123 01:39:16,490 --> 01:39:13,170 us do you have a camera 2124 01:39:17,150 --> 01:39:16,500 doorbell camera oh listen it was it on 2125 01:39:20,870 --> 01:39:17,160 last night 2126 01:39:23,900 --> 01:39:20,880 can i and if you do can I please uh uh 2127 01:39:25,610 --> 01:39:23,910 here here's a here's our clean new C SD 2128 01:39:31,010 --> 01:39:25,620 card I'll trade it for the one you can 2129 01:39:33,170 --> 01:39:31,020 hear in your camera and but you know we 2130 01:39:34,550 --> 01:39:33,180 didn't buy that time anybody would had a 2131 01:39:35,810 --> 01:39:34,560 doorbell kit and this was like three of 2132 01:39:42,040 --> 01:39:35,820 the clock in the morning so people 2133 01:39:45,050 --> 01:39:42,050 wouldn't have been up you know and so 2134 01:39:46,990 --> 01:39:45,060 that that case you know again another 2135 01:39:49,490 --> 01:39:47,000 single win this case where we don't have 2136 01:39:52,340 --> 01:39:49,500 enough information and maybe he could 2137 01:39:55,310 --> 01:39:52,350 have had some information yeah yeah no 2138 01:39:57,110 --> 01:39:55,320 so why would let me just ask you this 2139 01:40:00,740 --> 01:39:57,120 question and I'm not looking for you to 2140 01:40:04,070 --> 01:40:00,750 to bash or anything like that but what 2141 01:40:07,910 --> 01:40:04,080 is the advantage of contacting API over 2142 01:40:11,300 --> 01:40:07,920 say MUFON or Peter at Davenport's you 2143 01:40:14,720 --> 01:40:11,310 know phone phone line there well I I 2144 01:40:18,050 --> 01:40:14,730 have no problem with people contacting 2145 01:40:19,610 --> 01:40:18,060 any other organization and maybe that 2146 01:40:22,610 --> 01:40:19,620 organization will investigate maybe they 2147 01:40:23,270 --> 01:40:22,620 won't maybe they'll send out a good 2148 01:40:25,820 --> 01:40:23,280 investigator 2149 01:40:30,290 --> 01:40:25,830 maybe they won't one thing I can say to 2150 01:40:32,210 --> 01:40:30,300 you is that if you contact API we have a 2151 01:40:36,520 --> 01:40:32,220 very very strict ethical policy we won't 2152 01:40:39,470 --> 01:40:36,530 will maintain your anonymity and privacy 2153 01:40:41,600 --> 01:40:39,480 we have you could and by the way our 2154 01:40:42,740 --> 01:40:41,610 training material is all available to 2155 01:40:44,990 --> 01:40:42,750 anyone 2156 01:40:47,390 --> 01:40:45,000 Creative Commons we don't charge we 2157 01:40:50,000 --> 01:40:47,400 don't charge it I don't know what they 2158 01:40:51,230 --> 01:40:50,010 charge now move on for the book training 2159 01:40:54,410 --> 01:40:51,240 material but it's like hundred bucks I 2160 01:40:57,200 --> 01:40:54,420 think he when I bought mine it was like 2161 01:40:59,450 --> 01:40:57,210 $30 but all of this artisan stuff is 2162 01:41:01,670 --> 01:40:59,460 Creative Commons it's available you can 2163 01:41:02,660 --> 01:41:01,680 ask for anything I'll provide Qi if it's 2164 01:41:06,160 --> 01:41:02,670 not you can't find it in our website 2165 01:41:08,810 --> 01:41:06,170 I'll dig it up and give it to you and 2166 01:41:11,900 --> 01:41:08,820 the first one of the first videos we put 2167 01:41:13,550 --> 01:41:11,910 up there was ethical training so we're 2168 01:41:14,960 --> 01:41:13,560 strong on that the other thing is we are 2169 01:41:17,150 --> 01:41:14,970 very good investigators and we don't 2170 01:41:20,420 --> 01:41:17,160 have any weak investigators they don't 2171 01:41:22,850 --> 01:41:20,430 last long an organization because we 2172 01:41:25,010 --> 01:41:22,860 will and we will give you a report when 2173 01:41:26,950 --> 01:41:25,020 you are done if you want to see the 2174 01:41:30,260 --> 01:41:26,960 report we will give you our full report 2175 01:41:32,180 --> 01:41:30,270 and if we think we have identified what 2176 01:41:35,750 --> 01:41:32,190 you saw we'll give you the exact the 2177 01:41:37,760 --> 01:41:35,760 argument why we think that and we'll 2178 01:41:38,630 --> 01:41:37,770 also express their uncertainties we'll 2179 01:41:44,390 --> 01:41:38,640 say well you know it could have been 2180 01:41:45,680 --> 01:41:44,400 this or that and maybe not and so and 2181 01:41:48,140 --> 01:41:45,690 what we're not trying to prove anything 2182 01:41:52,670 --> 01:41:48,150 we're not trying to prove that aliens 2183 01:41:53,990 --> 01:41:52,680 exist or that they don't we're just 2184 01:41:57,710 --> 01:41:54,000 trying to get to the facts about your 2185 01:42:01,100 --> 01:41:57,720 case and and make reasonable inferences 2186 01:42:03,020 --> 01:42:01,110 from the from those facts and we think 2187 01:42:05,720 --> 01:42:03,030 that's what's valuable because we don't 2188 01:42:09,710 --> 01:42:05,730 think there's ever going to be a smoking 2189 01:42:13,370 --> 01:42:09,720 gun UFO case that says aha proof of my 2190 01:42:15,560 --> 01:42:13,380 of X theory whatever that theory is what 2191 01:42:18,590 --> 01:42:15,570 we do think is the patterns of the cases 2192 01:42:21,110 --> 01:42:18,600 may reveal something that would suggest 2193 01:42:22,460 --> 01:42:21,120 a direction to go on research and it's 2194 01:42:24,890 --> 01:42:22,470 not all going to be field investigation 2195 01:42:29,870 --> 01:42:24,900 ok other types of research like you know 2196 01:42:33,560 --> 01:42:29,880 automated surveillance cameras or other 2197 01:42:35,770 --> 01:42:33,570 types instrumented research so that kind 2198 01:42:38,180 --> 01:42:35,780 of thing is 2199 01:42:40,040 --> 01:42:38,190 but we just like I said we're not really 2200 01:42:44,000 --> 01:42:40,050 a science yet we need to we need to 2201 01:42:46,939 --> 01:42:44,010 collect accurate data as carefully as we 2202 01:42:50,270 --> 01:42:46,949 can and and make it available to the 2203 01:42:52,819 --> 01:42:50,280 community we make we what we do so you 2204 01:42:56,780 --> 01:42:52,829 take all our reports now we reject them 2205 01:43:00,950 --> 01:42:56,790 of any identifying information and we 2206 01:43:02,240 --> 01:43:00,960 put them on our website and so that's 2207 01:43:05,810 --> 01:43:02,250 available and I've talked to Chris 2208 01:43:07,970 --> 01:43:05,820 Cogswell other people who are looking 2209 01:43:09,319 --> 01:43:07,980 for that kind of information and we're 2210 01:43:12,770 --> 01:43:09,329 going to work with him and other people 2211 01:43:14,839 --> 01:43:12,780 to see how we can how we can make that 2212 01:43:15,830 --> 01:43:14,849 information more useful now I don't want 2213 01:43:17,569 --> 01:43:15,840 to be in the same organization with 2214 01:43:20,149 --> 01:43:17,579 Chris I don't want him to be my boss or 2215 01:43:22,700 --> 01:43:20,159 I don't want be his boss I want us to 2216 01:43:27,589 --> 01:43:22,710 work together a cooperative effort and 2217 01:43:29,149 --> 01:43:27,599 and Chris yeah yes I'm a fan of his and 2218 01:43:33,140 --> 01:43:29,159 I enjoy his podcast 2219 01:43:36,530 --> 01:43:33,150 yeah he's finally the and you know I've 2220 01:43:40,250 --> 01:43:36,540 talked to Kevin Knuth last year and he's 2221 01:43:42,439 --> 01:43:40,260 got some stuff he's working on and now I 2222 01:43:45,439 --> 01:43:42,449 knocked a help him with this stuff but I 2223 01:43:47,510 --> 01:43:45,449 can maybe help understand the patterns 2224 01:43:48,919 --> 01:43:47,520 of what we're seeing and this is a 2225 01:43:52,819 --> 01:43:48,929 long-term project it's not going to 2226 01:43:54,500 --> 01:43:52,829 happen overnight right right just a 2227 01:43:57,439 --> 01:43:54,510 couple of things here first of all we 2228 01:43:58,819 --> 01:43:57,449 have about seven minutes left or so to 2229 01:44:02,030 --> 01:43:58,829 the show I can't believe how fast it's 2230 01:44:03,950 --> 01:44:02,040 gone you mentioned two times tonight you 2231 01:44:06,890 --> 01:44:03,960 mentioned someone seeing a UFO with a 2232 01:44:08,270 --> 01:44:06,900 soft blue glow and that's funny the 2233 01:44:11,330 --> 01:44:08,280 people that have heard me tell my story 2234 01:44:12,890 --> 01:44:11,340 a number of times that's what I saw I 2235 01:44:16,069 --> 01:44:12,900 saw a perfect disc with like a light 2236 01:44:19,069 --> 01:44:16,079 blue glow which is interesting but I 2237 01:44:21,859 --> 01:44:19,079 want to talk earlier on we were talking 2238 01:44:24,919 --> 01:44:21,869 about memory and how you know you can 2239 01:44:28,069 --> 01:44:24,929 lose memory or it seems to change and 2240 01:44:30,050 --> 01:44:28,079 and I I agree that is something that has 2241 01:44:31,819 --> 01:44:30,060 happened I've been before I've been dead 2242 01:44:33,979 --> 01:44:31,829 certain about something and have been 2243 01:44:36,500 --> 01:44:33,989 totally wrong for instance I thought I 2244 01:44:38,060 --> 01:44:36,510 lived in a log cabin years ago and ended 2245 01:44:41,870 --> 01:44:38,070 up at just how it was a house of natural 2246 01:44:44,540 --> 01:44:41,880 sighting it was so so I can I can be 2247 01:44:46,819 --> 01:44:44,550 wrong in memory and I understand that so 2248 01:44:48,279 --> 01:44:46,829 I guess the question I have you is what 2249 01:44:52,469 --> 01:44:48,289 is your thoughts on 2250 01:44:56,109 --> 01:44:52,479 people do regressive you know hypnotism 2251 01:45:00,069 --> 01:44:56,119 what do you think about that well from 2252 01:45:02,049 --> 01:45:00,079 my understanding of the science and 2253 01:45:06,520 --> 01:45:02,059 there's also a history there not just 2254 01:45:07,839 --> 01:45:06,530 the UFOs but other things that memory 2255 01:45:10,299 --> 01:45:07,849 regression therapies of all kind 2256 01:45:11,669 --> 01:45:10,309 including interest ISM are extremely 2257 01:45:14,709 --> 01:45:11,679 unreliable 2258 01:45:16,509 --> 01:45:14,719 sometimes memories may be retrieved but 2259 01:45:18,909 --> 01:45:16,519 those memories there's a high 2260 01:45:20,799 --> 01:45:18,919 probabilities or false memories which is 2261 01:45:23,649 --> 01:45:20,809 a real thing false memories as you've 2262 01:45:25,000 --> 01:45:23,659 just explained happen all the time they 2263 01:45:27,520 --> 01:45:25,010 are not people lying there not people 2264 01:45:30,250 --> 01:45:27,530 being deceptive they're just people 2265 01:45:34,270 --> 01:45:30,260 that's just way human memory can fail 2266 01:45:36,479 --> 01:45:34,280 and the there's a lot of research shows 2267 01:45:40,329 --> 01:45:36,489 how false memories can be injected and 2268 01:45:42,009 --> 01:45:40,339 if and just outgoing you know setting 2269 01:45:45,909 --> 01:45:42,019 aside the whole alien abduction thing 2270 01:45:48,029 --> 01:45:45,919 for now which I like shock delay and 2271 01:45:50,379 --> 01:45:48,039 others I questioned the ethics of using 2272 01:45:55,179 --> 01:45:50,389 regression memory regression with the 2273 01:45:58,029 --> 01:45:55,189 UFO cases but look at the satanic panic 2274 01:46:00,579 --> 01:45:58,039 back in the 80s a lot of those people 2275 01:46:02,549 --> 01:46:00,589 had memory regression therapy and they 2276 01:46:05,589 --> 01:46:02,559 remembered the satanic ritual abuse 2277 01:46:08,589 --> 01:46:05,599 families were torn apart people went to 2278 01:46:12,009 --> 01:46:08,599 jail who were innocent a lot of things 2279 01:46:14,079 --> 01:46:12,019 really bad stuff happened because of the 2280 01:46:16,359 --> 01:46:14,089 memory regression therapies now if you 2281 01:46:19,569 --> 01:46:16,369 talk to any serious psychologist and 2282 01:46:20,699 --> 01:46:19,579 I've talked to psychologists every 2283 01:46:23,770 --> 01:46:20,709 chance I get 2284 01:46:27,689 --> 01:46:23,780 about these kinds of things they'll tell 2285 01:46:29,500 --> 01:46:27,699 you that is pseudoscience it's not real 2286 01:46:31,689 --> 01:46:29,510 it there 2287 01:46:33,339 --> 01:46:31,699 the risks are extremely high of someone 2288 01:46:37,089 --> 01:46:33,349 remembering something very traumatic 2289 01:46:39,579 --> 01:46:37,099 that never happened really well and do 2290 01:46:42,789 --> 01:46:39,589 you know on this line do you think it's 2291 01:46:45,099 --> 01:46:42,799 because their lead led along or like 2292 01:46:48,759 --> 01:46:45,109 some unprofessional and leading them I 2293 01:46:50,619 --> 01:46:48,769 think well I think that it's really 2294 01:46:54,250 --> 01:46:50,629 really difficult to avoid leading 2295 01:46:55,359 --> 01:46:54,260 questions but even just you know what 2296 01:46:57,759 --> 01:46:55,369 I'm dealing with some of these normal 2297 01:46:58,509 --> 01:46:57,769 memories I I struggle with not asking 2298 01:47:01,599 --> 01:46:58,519 any questions 2299 01:47:02,230 --> 01:47:01,609 but I don't my sense of it is and again 2300 01:47:05,980 --> 01:47:02,240 I'm not as I 2301 01:47:09,640 --> 01:47:05,990 ecologist but uh it's not just that it's 2302 01:47:11,770 --> 01:47:09,650 not just that they're asking any 2303 01:47:14,080 --> 01:47:11,780 questions just people become highly 2304 01:47:15,940 --> 01:47:14,090 suggestible state in this highly 2305 01:47:19,680 --> 01:47:15,950 suggestible state this their own 2306 01:47:23,280 --> 01:47:19,690 fantasies can trigger memories mmm and 2307 01:47:28,620 --> 01:47:23,290 but yes I think a lot of very unethical 2308 01:47:31,240 --> 01:47:28,630 so-called therapists have deliberately 2309 01:47:33,070 --> 01:47:31,250 you know maybe insidiously led them down 2310 01:47:36,550 --> 01:47:33,080 the path towards the conclusion they 2311 01:47:37,990 --> 01:47:36,560 want them to reach because then they'll 2312 01:47:41,560 --> 01:47:38,000 need they'll need more therapy it'll 2313 01:47:46,030 --> 01:47:41,570 need more you know they can build them 2314 01:47:47,650 --> 01:47:46,040 more and it's because some states you 2315 01:47:50,580 --> 01:47:47,660 can hit you could hang up a shingle and 2316 01:47:53,860 --> 01:47:50,590 call yourself into a therapist without 2317 01:47:59,740 --> 01:47:53,870 any training really or very minimal 2318 01:48:03,490 --> 01:47:59,750 training and the I would not even go to 2319 01:48:07,360 --> 01:48:03,500 a PhD psychologist or memory aggression 2320 01:48:10,800 --> 01:48:07,370 because I don't I'm really afraid I buy 2321 01:48:13,750 --> 01:48:10,810 memories would be would be false and 2322 01:48:15,490 --> 01:48:13,760 possibly traumatic I mean I had things 2323 01:48:18,910 --> 01:48:15,500 from my childhood I thought really 2324 01:48:23,380 --> 01:48:18,920 interesting memories but I do not want 2325 01:48:24,400 --> 01:48:23,390 to find out that way you know I just 2326 01:48:25,240 --> 01:48:24,410 don't think it's I don't think it'll 2327 01:48:28,810 --> 01:48:25,250 work 2328 01:48:30,610 --> 01:48:28,820 so I we it's explicitly in our ethical 2329 01:48:34,630 --> 01:48:30,620 policies we do not recommend and Malak 2330 01:48:36,520 --> 01:48:34,640 regression we don't do it we're not on 2331 01:48:39,190 --> 01:48:36,530 such us because we're not qualified we 2332 01:48:41,350 --> 01:48:39,200 don't think anyone should do it now well 2333 01:48:44,920 --> 01:48:41,360 if the science comes out says that there 2334 01:48:47,730 --> 01:48:44,930 is a way to retrieve memories that are 2335 01:48:50,470 --> 01:48:47,740 somehow repressed are screened off and 2336 01:48:52,510 --> 01:48:50,480 good science is done that way then it 2337 01:48:55,180 --> 01:48:52,520 might become more ethical t to do that 2338 01:48:56,680 --> 01:48:55,190 but I'd only do it with someone who's 2339 01:49:00,550 --> 01:48:56,690 really really well-trained and really 2340 01:49:04,390 --> 01:49:00,560 really knowledgeable and somebody with 2341 01:49:07,090 --> 01:49:04,400 it as a graduate degree and like a 2342 01:49:09,900 --> 01:49:07,100 psychiatrist or psychologist now back in 2343 01:49:12,250 --> 01:49:09,910 the 60s when Betty and Barney Hill got 2344 01:49:13,810 --> 01:49:12,260 regressed they didn't know better I mean 2345 01:49:15,220 --> 01:49:13,820 the guy was probably a legit 2346 01:49:17,020 --> 01:49:15,230 psychiatrist but 2347 01:49:19,000 --> 01:49:17,030 he didn't really know not to not to 2348 01:49:21,670 --> 01:49:19,010 entice them this the science just wasn't 2349 01:49:23,410 --> 01:49:21,680 there and there's a long history of 2350 01:49:25,600 --> 01:49:23,420 psychiatrist doing things that weren't 2351 01:49:28,510 --> 01:49:25,610 are supported by science mmm 2352 01:49:32,860 --> 01:49:28,520 Wow so that's that's interesting we only 2353 01:49:34,480 --> 01:49:32,870 have about a minute here and when the 2354 01:49:37,870 --> 01:49:34,490 one thing that you just mentioned is 2355 01:49:41,110 --> 01:49:37,880 when someone is suppressing and that's 2356 01:49:44,560 --> 01:49:41,120 the one the one case where I would think 2357 01:49:46,480 --> 01:49:44,570 if it's suppression due to something 2358 01:49:48,370 --> 01:49:46,490 really traumatic traumatic or which 2359 01:49:50,620 --> 01:49:48,380 people can do they can suppress those 2360 01:49:55,300 --> 01:49:50,630 memories I would think that that would 2361 01:49:58,240 --> 01:49:55,310 be a case where regression may help them 2362 01:49:59,980 --> 01:49:58,250 at least get over suppressing the 2363 01:50:01,420 --> 01:49:59,990 memories but well I don't I don't 2364 01:50:04,270 --> 01:50:01,430 understand how that works and I'm not 2365 01:50:05,920 --> 01:50:04,280 sure anybody does I certainly think 2366 01:50:08,500 --> 01:50:05,930 people who have art down I think that's 2367 01:50:11,200 --> 01:50:08,510 what I'm thinking but yeah people who've 2368 01:50:12,840 --> 01:50:11,210 been in say combat or you know police 2369 01:50:15,910 --> 01:50:12,850 officers who've been in shootings 2370 01:50:16,810 --> 01:50:15,920 probably do need therapy but I think 2371 01:50:20,650 --> 01:50:16,820 they need to be in the hands of a real 2372 01:50:21,670 --> 01:50:20,660 pro who it's not so much retrieving 2373 01:50:23,170 --> 01:50:21,680 their memories that's important it's 2374 01:50:25,120 --> 01:50:23,180 what's important is getting them better 2375 01:50:27,280 --> 01:50:25,130 yes yeah okay 2376 01:50:28,690 --> 01:50:27,290 Hey oh this is the end of our show 2377 01:50:30,370 --> 01:50:28,700 already I can't believe it Paul it's 2378 01:50:32,770 --> 01:50:30,380 been wonderful thank you and I'm so glad 2379 01:50:34,170 --> 01:50:32,780 you came back to the show and throughout 2380 01:50:37,420 --> 01:50:34,180 your website if you would real quickly 2381 01:50:38,770 --> 01:50:37,430 report a UFO RG all right excellent 2382 01:50:39,760 --> 01:50:38,780 everything's there that you need though 2383 01:50:41,230 --> 01:50:39,770 all right great 2384 01:50:43,300 --> 01:50:41,240 thanks so much and have a good night 2385 01:50:45,370 --> 01:50:43,310 well it's a great Martin thanks thank 2386 01:50:47,590 --> 01:50:45,380 you alright everyone so that's it for 2387 01:50:50,440 --> 01:50:47,600 our show thank you so much for listening 2388 01:50:52,750 --> 01:50:50,450 we will be back I think we'll be back 2389 01:50:55,690 --> 01:50:52,760 next week our guest the next week just 2390 01:50:58,150 --> 01:50:55,700 had to cancel so I'm scrambling looking 2391 01:51:01,000 --> 01:50:58,160 for a guests coming up this week but I 2392 01:51:02,620 --> 01:51:01,010 do appreciate you listening and I also 2393 01:51:05,260 --> 01:51:02,630 appreciate the people that support the 2394 01:51:07,870 --> 01:51:05,270 show and I also want to thank Peggy for 2395 01:51:11,080 --> 01:51:07,880 handling the Facebook page you can check 2396 01:51:13,540 --> 01:51:11,090 that out for UFO news daily remember to 2397 01:51:16,750 --> 01:51:13,550 go to podcast UFO comm check out the 2398 01:51:18,550 --> 01:51:16,760 blog UFO sightings etc all right thanks